Ailing Paradise Fish

[ncjharris]

Hi ya'll,

wonder if you could cast your eyes over whats up with our male Macropodus opercularis.
He is kept in 125L planted community tank, inhabitants as per signature.
Water stats were fine as of the weekend, but after writing this I'll go and recheck and post here.

Five or six weeks ago, all the labyrinth fish in our aqaurium (m & f paradise and honey gourami) started acting lethargic, and gasping at the surface. Water test showed nothing, water agitation seemed adequate, all were eating well and no other problems in the other fish. Carried out a water change and added an air stone to increase oxygenisation of the water.
A week or so later, the gourami appeared better, but the paradise fish were still displaying these symptoms, and a secondary infection had set in - finrot in both.
Upon closer inspection, the male's faeces appeared white and stringy, and adding this to his legargy and gasping I diagnosed an internal infection of some kind - bacterial.
I treated the tank with Interpets anti-internal bacteria medication - 2 courses as per the instructions.

A week or so later, with a few water changes and some doseage of melafix, both appeared well.

However, in the last week, the male appears to have the same symptons - only this time worse. His lethargy has manifested into lying on the substrate on rocks for long periods of time, then swimming off and mid swim 'dozing off' and sinking to the bottom. Once there he'll lie there for a while, before doing the same again. His other symptoms are still fin-rot (although it doen't appear to have worsened in the last week), occasional twitching (not rubbing) and what looks like a graze on his side.

He is still eating when we feed the tank, and when he moves he looks fine. He hasn't lost any colour.

Yesterday I treated the tank with interpet anti-fungus and fin-rot, having read that this can help too. I am becoming concerned with the amount of medicine I am adding to the tank, but if this is contagious, I will have to anyway. This is the reason I haven't quarentined him yet. The tank is still additionally aereated, and I have lowered the temp to 24 celcius.

So - does anyone have any suggestions?
I think it is an internal infection of some kind, but not too sure if it is bacterial or parasitical. Can anyone recommend any effective treatment. Would salt have any benefical effect (note we have cory's in the tank).

All comments appriciated.

N

 

[WILDER]

Sounds to me like you have parasites, any red inflamed or pale looking gills, the one sat on the bottom of the tank isn't sounding to good, if they have been heavy breathing, and twitching, and the graze on the body could be from rubbing, finrot can be a secondary infection.

http/www.biokombs.com/parasites.htm

 

[sylvia]

Considering you dosed with an anti-bacterial/antibiotic med, checking the water parameters would be a good idea.

Adding salt is not an option if you have cories.

Though I agree with Wilder in that the stringy poo sounds like internal parasites that could well mean the whole tank is affected, if only this gourami is showing signs of disease, it would be a good idea to isolate him and dose him for both parasites (check the link Wilder supplied) and finrot/flexibacter (the anti fungus med is fine for this). Adding salt may or may not be beneficial but you can try it. Also, as this is a paradisefish, and they can handle pretty low temps, getting the temperature as low as you can without causing unecessary stress will make the finrot go away quicker. Obviously, not all your fish would take kindly to this so, again, isolation is a good idea. I also agree that adding so many meds into a tank can't be good for the healthy fish so there's one more reason to isolate. the fact that he's eating is a good sign and paradisefish are hardy so he has a good chance of recovering if you treat him asap.

I should add that there is a chance the problem is internal bacteria and that I have no idea what was wrong with your anabantoids before. It's very unusual for honey gouramies to survive an internal bacterial ifnection - though, granted, they are hardier than dwarfs - and I have no explanation for why only the anabantoids would have been affected (though perhaps you simply didn't notice symptoms in the other fish).

I have to say another plausible cause of this problem is the fact that you have a honey gourami and a pair of paradisefish together. Male paradisefish, especialy, can be very aggressive. it's likely they stress each other out (causing them to be more susceptible to disease) and that the male and female paradisefish chase/nip each other attracting secondary bacterial ifnections - such as the finrot. Isolating the male may be enough to fix the lethargy though the finrot will still need to be treated if this is the case.

 

[ncjharris]

Hi - thanks for your replies.

Testing the water -
Ammonia - 0 ppm
NirtItre - 0 ppm
NitrAte - 10 ppm (water changed carried out less that 24 hrs ago)
pH - 7.6 (normal)

So nothing wrong there.

Overall nothing looks red or inflammed and I am pretty sure finrot is a secondary infection.

Have lowered the temp in the tank to what I consider to be safe for all inhabitants - both to slow the onset of finrot and also to increase the oxygen carrying capacity of the water. Salting the community tank will be my last option - I will quarentine before that, so that may be an option there.
We have lost 3 other honeys to internal infections, although the last was several months ago, so the tank has a history of that.

As for their behaviour, we must be lucky, as in the years we have kept paradise fish, we have never seen any major agression. The male may chase away a wayward danio when he has a bubble nest and may nip the female occasionally, but we have never seen (either first hand or the symptoms) of an agressor in either of them. I am fairly confident that this is not a factor.

It will be a few water changes before I want to treat in the tank, but what would you reccomend as a good internal parasite medication?

 

[ncjharris]

Well, an update to the above.

Its been 10 days or so since my last post, and the paradise fish is still with us, albeit just.

We have kept up the medication of anti-internal and anti fungus and fin rot, but to no avail. Logistical problems has meant that we havn't been able to quarentine him.

In the last few days, while the fin rot appears to have been halted, there have appeared on his head some furry white growths (they look fungal). Following the course of the treatment and a water change, I have now started medicating the tank with Primafix.

I am still at a loss as to what is the root cause of his ailment.
Testing this eve, ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrate 5ppm.
He spends most of his time on the tank bottom, sheltered in a small cave, but swims normally for food and will act normally for 5 mins after that or so.

Having observed the tank with the lights off, he appears more active when it is dark. Could this be linked to anything?

Again guys, comments would be welcome please. I don't know what is wrong with him.

 

[WILDER]

Sorry but if he has furry white bits on the head he has columnaris.
http/article.discusnews.com/cat-02/columnaries.shtml

 

[ncjharris]

Thanks Wilder - that is one option I had looked at before. However, I didn't really consider it as I read that fish with columnaris rarely survive longer than 10 days - this has been going on for almost a month now.

I think my next course of action is to quarentine and treat with salt.
I don't want to stress the poor guy out with more meds, but I really don't see any way to help him otherwise.

Thanks again.

 

[WILDER]

Antibiotics are good for columnaris but don't no your location, but it sounds like the uk, though if the fish is weak they could finish the fish off, i wouldn't advise using them if he's weak and i would issolated the sick fish and do some water changes on your tank.

Abit more info for you but not the writer of this article.
Columnaris (a.k.a. Mouth Fungus)



Symptoms:

An infected fish will have off-white to gray cotton-like patches on the head, fins, gills, body and particularly the mouth. In time, these areas will develop into open sores. Gill swelling may occur, gill filaments may stick together and excessive mucus may develop in the gill area. Rapid breathing can be seen. Fins may deteriorate to the point of leaving the fin rays bare. Muscles may be inflamed and capillaries may rupture. Fish, particularly livebearers, may exhibit "shimmying". Infection may be acute (killing an infected fish within hours), or chronic (lingering for several days before eventually killing the fish). As with most diseases, not all symptoms need be present.



Cause:

The bacterium Flexibacter columnaris.



Treatment:

Ensure that your water conditions (e.g., Ammonia, Nitrite, pH, Nitrate levels, and water temp.) are within their proper ranges. If not, perform a water change and/or treat the water accordingly. Recommended medications include: Furanace, Fungus Eliminator, Fungus Cure, Furacyn, Furan-2, Triple Sulfa, E.M. Tablets, Tetracycline, or Potassium Permanganate. Medicated foods are also recommended. Columnaris can be highly infectious and may quickly kill all aquarium inhabitants; therefore, early treatment is essential. All fish, including those not yet showing visible symptoms, as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated.