Agh.

[K.J.]

I have my betta, Larry, in a 2.5 unfiltered but heated tank. I haven't kept a betta in a 2.5 tank with a filter, and I was advised it wasn't really necessary. However, last night he had an ammonia reading of 1.0! The other betta, who was much larger, had a reading of 0. I can only imagine it was because I had been feeding him live mosquito larvae and the pellets that hadn't been eaten. I changed the water 100% but now the test reads .25 - .50 PPM. He has finrot, because I bought him as a "rescue" from Petsmart. I haven't fed him anything since the last reading. Why would the bigger one have no reading but this one getting readings? I'm not sure what to do...

 

[Phaedra]

You haven't had him in that tank very long, have you? The only thing I can think of is that the other tank with the 0 reading might have beneficial bacteria growing on its rocks, decorations and plants. One option is to take some decorations or rocks from the old tank and add them to Larry's tank to help it cycle. (You don't need a filter to get the good bacteria growing) In a 2.5g it won't hurt to use a filter as long as your betta can handle it. There are also options you can use that slow down the output (flow) of the filter, one is pinned in the Betta forum.
I know you've been medicating Larry for fin rot, it might help to list what meds your using for someone who knows a bit more. It's possible that the meds are messing with your readings.

Incidentally, what test kit are you using?

 

[K.J.]

You haven't had him in that tank very long, have you? The only thing I can think of is that the other tank with the 0 reading might have beneficial bacteria growing on its rocks, decorations and plants. One option is to take some decorations or rocks from the old tank and add them to Larry's tank to help it cycle. (You don't need a filter to get the good bacteria growing) In a 2.5g it won't hurt to use a filter as long as your betta can handle it. There are also options you can use that slow down the output (flow) of the filter, one is pinned in the Betta forum.
I know you've been medicating Larry for fin rot, it might help to list what meds your using for someone who knows a bit more. It's possible that the meds are messing with your readings.

Incidentally, what test kit are you using?

I've been using Maracyn and the Aquarium Pharma... pharma... ceuticals? Pharmaceuticals, I guess. I r dumm. All the other betta has is a fake mermaid and a rock with a java fern growing on it. Maybe the mermaid could be switched? I gravel vac all the time, so maybe that's why? I don't know. I could buy a filter, but would that help much with the waste only if it was cycled?

 

[Phaedra]

You know about cycling right? Just in case, here's a quick rundown.
Fish>food>fish waste>Ammonia (bad)>Nitrites (bad)>Nitrates(good).

So, until the ammonia breaks down into nitrites and then into nitrates, you won't have a "cycle" (in other words, beneficial bacteria that eats the bad stuff) in the tank and nothing is "eating" the ammonia in the new tank like it is in the older "established" tank. The beneficial bacteria from your established tank should (and keep in mind that this is all coming from a relative newb herself) help keep ammonia and nitrite levels down when you introduce it to the new tank. As long as your other Betta is healthy and the parameters in his tank are good, I'd add either his decoration or about 1 cup of gravel to the new tank. It will help, but you'll still really have to keep an eye on the params in the new tank.

Edit: Filters are great at helping with fish waste removal. I only had my filter in for about a week and it already had a bit of brown gunk on it. I was sure surprised! Especially since I haven't seen Darby do his "business" and I hand-feed him to ensure no decomposing food gets to the bottom.
It sounds like you're using the API kit too (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc.).
If you have a filter, since it sucks up all the gunk in the tank, it's more prone to grow that good bacteria and won't be subject to the gravel vacs. As far as those go, I'm not sure, but I would probably cut back on them just a bit unless the tank gets really bad. At least until it's cycled a little bit.

 

[K.J.]

You know about cycling right? Just in case, here's a quick rundown.
Fish>food>fish waste>Ammonia (bad)>Nitrites (bad)>Nitrates(good).

So, until the ammonia breaks down into nitrites and then into nitrates, you won't have a "cycle" (in other words, beneficial bacteria that eats the bad stuff) in the tank and nothing is "eating" the ammonia in the new tank like it is in the older "established" tank. The beneficial bacteria from your established tank should (and keep in mind that this is all coming from a relative newb herself) help keep ammonia and nitrite levels down when you introduce it to the new tank. As long as your other Betta is healthy and the parameters in his tank are good, I'd add either his decoration or about 1 cup of gravel to the new tank. It will help, but you'll still really have to keep an eye on the params in the new tank.

Edit: Filters are great at helping with fish waste removal. I only had my filter in for about a week and it already had a bit of brown gunk on it. I was sure surprised! Especially since I haven't seen Darby do his "business" and I hand-feed him to ensure no decomposing food gets to the bottom.
It sounds like you're using the API kit too (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc.).
If you have a filter, since it sucks up all the gunk in the tank, it's more prone to grow that good bacteria and won't be subject to the gravel vacs. As far as those go, I'm not sure, but I would probably cut back on them just a bit unless the tank gets really bad. At least until it's cycled a little bit.

Okay. So I buy a small filter? How much do they cost?

 

[Phaedra]

I really don't know lol. Both of my tanks were sets, so they came with a filter. Since you're medicating Larry right now, I'm not sure if the Maracyn would kill off any good bacteria either, but it never hurts to try. Also, I would hold off on the filter until he's recovered a bit. It might be stressful for him to adjust to. One option is to buy one and add it to your other cycled tank while you treat Larry for his fin rot. Once he's ready for it, you get the benefit of having a pre-established filter all ready for him as soon as he's feeling better.

But for future reference, here is a great link on slowing down the output on a filter:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=84710
Here is another link on Cycling:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=141944
And another from a different forum:
http/www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598
This one you might find more helpful, it's the one I used when I first heard of the mysterious "cycle".

You should also change his water again until you get the ammonia count back to reasonable levels.

 

[K.J.]

I really don't know lol. Both of my tanks were sets, so they came with a filter. Since you're medicating Larry right now, I'm not sure if the Maracyn would kill off any good bacteria either, but it never hurts to try. Also, I would hold off on the filter until he's recovered a bit. It might be stressful for him to adjust to. One option is to buy one and add it to your other cycled tank while you treat Larry for his fin rot. Once he's ready for it, you get the benefit of having a pre-established filter all ready for him as soon as he's feeling better.

But for future reference, here is a great link on slowing down the output on a filter:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=84710
Here is another link on Cycling:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=141944
And another from a different forum:
http/www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598
This one you might find more helpful, it's the one I used when I first heard of the mysterious "cycle".

I'm pretty sure that Maracyn kills off bacteria, or maybe it was that it didn't work with carbon. I could add it to my 10G, but what until then? Wouldn't the ammonia kill him?

 

[Phaedra]

Must have edited too slow lol. Definitely keep up the water changes until his ammonia is back to a reasonable level.
You're going to have to check once, or even twice daily would probably be better to check the params of his tank since you're getting readings like that.

And good point with the carbon, you don't want a carbon filter mixed with a tank that's being medicated, the carbon can diminish the effects of the meds.

 

[K.J.]

What should I do, 10% daily or more? Thank god it's not too hard to get a bucket and a syphon.

 

[Phaedra]

Lucky! My little Eclipse is a pain to change, but it's worth it, and Darby seems to enjoy the company strangely enough. He even tries to swim into the little container I use to get the water out.

I would say it really depends on your params on a daily basis. How much did you have to change today in order to get ammonia back down to 0?
Here's an excerpt from that link I posted that I thought was pretty informative:

The first item for discussion is Ammonia (NH3). All decaying matter, like uneaten food and from fish wastes, produces this. Any detectable amount is trouble for your fish, and levels of .25 ppm and above can damage fish permanently, based on length of exposure. This damage occurs to the gills, and causes breathing problems. It will damage the gills whether the fish live or die.

So really, whatever it takes to keep your ammonia levels low is what I would do. Test tomorrow and find out what they're at. It must be from the decaying food at the bottom of the tank.

 

[K.J.]

Lucky! My little Eclipse is a pain to change, but it's worth it, and Darby seems to enjoy the company strangely enough. He even tries to swim into the little container I use to get the water out.

I would say it really depends on your params on a daily basis. How much did you have to change today in order to get ammonia back down to 0?
Here's an excerpt from that link I posted that I thought was pretty informative:

The first item for discussion is Ammonia (NH3). All decaying matter, like uneaten food and from fish wastes, produces this. Any detectable amount is trouble for your fish, and levels of .25 ppm and above can damage fish permanently, based on length of exposure. This damage occurs to the gills, and causes breathing problems. It will damage the gills whether the fish live or die.

So really, whatever it takes to keep your ammonia levels low is what I would do. Test tomorrow and find out what they're at. It must be from the decaying food at the bottom of the tank.

100%. And then it screws up about 8 hours later... is it really healthy for him to be having all these water changes?

 

[ICEEGRL]

It is much better than having ammonia in the water. What do you use to remove chlorine and such at water changes?

 

[K.J.]

It is much better than having ammonia in the water. What do you use to remove chlorine and such at water changes?

Wardley's dechlorinator, 5 drops per gallon.

 

[ICEEGRL]

I don't know anything about that one. Does it have an ammonia neutrilizer in it? If not do you happen to have anything that does neutrilize or absorb ammonia? That would be somewhat helpful until you could get things sorted.

 

[K.J.]

It says it neutralized Chloramines and chlorine.