African Livebearers?

[guppymonkey]

Are there any african livebearers? I can't seem to think of any species. As africa was joined to south america I would think there would be some species since there are so many central american and northern south american species. Or did the livebearers in the americas come from north america and spread south when north and south came together? Or did the livebearers develop completely after continental split? I haven't been able to find a good history as most fish books don't talk about the history of the species.

 

[nmonks]

Yes, there are African and Madagascan Poeciliidae. But they aren't livebearers. Aplocheilichthys spp. are about the only ones traded. But sometimes you see Lamprichthys tanganicanus, the giant Lake Tanganyika killifish.

http/www.fishbase.org/identification/spe...&areacode=1

Cheers, Neale

 

[helterskelter]

The two main groups are Poeciliidae and Goodeidae both are only naturally only found in the America's (north and south)
How ever Goodeidae are only found in Mexico.

I believe they have found fossil record's but unsure how far back at this time, but this would indicate that they have been around for a very long time. but as u have said most likely after the continental split.
They are related to the Killifish family though and these are found in Africa and in many other parts of the world as well so they must of devloped at a later date.

 

[helterskelter]

Yes, there are African and Madagascan Poeciliidae. But they aren't livebearers. Aplocheilichthys spp.
Cheers, Neale

Thanks Neale

I've heard of Aplocheilichthys but did not know they was from Madagasca.

 

[nmonks]

Helterskelter --

The African killifish families have recently been sunk into the Poeciliidae as subfamilies, the Fluviophylacine and Aplocheilichthyinae. The "killifish" concept is really a bit misleading and isn't a natural group at all. Besides these two subfamilies in the Poeciliidae, the medaka familiy, Adrianichthyidae, is now part of the halfbeak/flyingfish group, the Beloniformes.

As you say, livebearing poecilids are exclusively American.

Cheers, Neale

 

[guppymonkey]

So the Poeciliidae family is a mishmash of species or is it related species that are split between africa and the americas? I wonder if it would be possible to somehow figure out from fossil records if a species was livebearing? I would guess it would be difficult if not impossible to know for sure.

 

[nmonks]

They won't be a mish-mash. Modern taxonomy is based on finding common ancestors. So there was presumably some egg-laying killifish-like animal from which the American and African poecillids were evolved.

Yes, you can identify livebearers from the fossil record, or at least, you can see from the skeleton of the anal fin whether the male was equipped to fertilise the female internally.

Cheers, Neale

 

[helterskelter]

The genus are structured as a tree format, just coz their Poeciliidae done not mean their livebeares, it's just means is a family of fish relates.

In fossil they can tell their of a family of Poeciliidae but unless their is a inprint of a gonopodium of a male or u find a print of a female giving birth or holding fry then I guess they cant tell if their true livebrarers.

 

[guppymonkey]

I am not an expert but I would guess that gonopodium fossils would be few and far between even on mostly complete fossils. There are species that have internal fertilization and then the female lays the eggs and does not carry the young internally. I would have to guess it would be hard to discover when (and if) livebearers developed from this internal fertilization to carrying the young to term from fossil records.

 

[helterskelter]

LOL ye it would be very rare i bet

 

[dwarfgourami]

The genus are structured as a tree format, just coz their Poeciliidae done not mean their livebeares, it's just means is a family of fish relates.

Or to put the same thing another way, livebearing is a trait that has evolved separately in several different fish families, but not necessarily in the whole of each respective family.

 

[diburning]

yes. I hypothesize that the common ancestors of the fish of Africa and the Americas were egg layers.

The fish must have diverged when south america and africa broke apart. The south ameircan livebearers developed live birth.

Just as how the cichlids diverged to SA and African Cichlids and the cooler water Sunfish of North America.

Same thing with killifish. There are killifish in Africa and SA that diverged from a common ancestor not too long ago.