Accidentally Lucky In The Past..........

[Squeegeatc]

Hello Y'all!   I have had MANY fish tank set ups in the past and have apparently been extremely lucky!   I've only ever had a 10 gallon tank, but I usually just toss the fish in as soon as it's filled.  The Cycling information is all news to me!  Not that I discount it, but I never did it before.
 
We stil have the 10 gallon, but just got a 55 gallon.  We filled it last night and was told to drop in the old filter cartridge, so that is working now.  I'm sure we won't be able to wait the full month to add fish.   We have 4 children----and us adults are just as bad as the kids, truth be told!!
 
Currently, the 10 gallon has 3 Harlequin Rasbora's, a Mickey Mouse Platy, a Red Wag Platy, and a guppy of some sort (was a bonus baby with the shrimp).  There are 3 other fish that I really don't remember what they are right now.   They are larger than I expected, with SUPER flowy fins.  I only added them Friday.  Oh--and a single shirmp.  I did make a huge mistake and didn't have a heater in this tank.   Lost 4 platys.   I did have 3 of each kind. 
 
Anyway, I want to do this right.   Tank is set up, Heat is ON!   I plan on buying a water test kit tomorrow.  For now, we are window shipping for new babies.   Husband wants a school of neons.  Other than that, we are open.  I want a lot of movement and color.   I'd LOVE some crabs or shrimp, maybe a frog or two.  I'll need some surface dwellers, and a few bottom dwellers.   Advice??? 
 
Squeege

 

[Ninjouzata]

Sorry if this is a silly question, did you put the filter media just in the tank or in the filter?
You'll need ammonia to fish-less cycle the tank, so you want to pick that up while you're getting your liquid test kit. You can find ammonia at Ace Hardware.
 
If you can get a picture of the mystery flowy fins fish you have, someone should be able to ID them for you.
 
Are you moving the fish in the 10g to the 55g once it's cycled?

 

[Squeegeatc]

Husband bought a crappy filter/pump with the EZ cartridges.   I pulled it and dumped the whole thing into the bottom of the big tank.  I also had a "microphone" looking thing on the intake of the old tank.   We had a frog get caught in it, so added the microphone.  I added that to the new tank as well.  I was thinking about moving some of the decor over, too. 
 
But that was before I get HERE and found out about the ammonia.  I really don't see how I can go full fish-less with these kids.   They are driving me crazy.   The husband too!  And yes, all fish will be moved to the big tank.   I'm considering an all frog tank for the little one, if they won't work well in the big tank.   Or a terrarium.  
 
If I chose to go a true Fish-In cycle, would I add all my current fish at once, or just a few?  And if I try to stay fishless, about how fast will it be since I have the old bacteria moved over?
 
And the new fish were from PetSmart.   I've seen them before......I just forget the name!!!

 

[ShinySideUp]

If you've moved the bacteria-laden filter material in to the new tank filter you don't need to cycle if your fish load is the same -- the bacteria don't care what tank they are in. You need only leave the new water until the temp has stabilised and the chlorine has gassed off -- maybe 24 hours -- and you can move your filter material and the fish over to the new tank at the same time. It would be better if you can also move over most of the old water too to avoid any shock to the fish.
 
Let everything stabilise for a couple of weeks then you can look to introduce new fish.
 
Whatever you do, don't try to mix fish-in and fishless cycling as you will kill all your fish.

 

[Ninjouzata]

That pic looks like a black skirt tetra, they should be kept in groups of 6+, and your harlequin rasboras should be too, forgot to mention that.

 

[Squeegeatc]

Oh AWESOME!   I think you just made my kids' day!!   Husband wil be back home Wednesday night.  I'll start moving fish then!  He wants to be here.  Will I need to add ammonia?   Or could I just start swapping the water in the 2 tanks?  it would A) add ammonia to the new tank and B) start acclimating the fish.  At least, in MY mind it makes sense?   That's why I'm asking the pros!
 
Geesh--HOW did I manage to be so successful in the past?   I didn't know anything!!!
 
Yes!   It was a black shirt tetra.   Thank you!  When I bought them, they recommended no less than 3 and that was all my tank could handle.  I planned on getting more for them as well as the rasboras.  

 

[Ninjouzata]

No you don't want to add ammonia to a tank that has fish in it, it will kill them in the amounts you'd use to do a fish-less cycle.
 
I'd put the fish & water from the 10g into the 55g, then fill it up with temperature matched, dechlorinated water.
 
Are you doing the same substrate in the tanks? If so you could move the substrate over too, it contains some bacteria.
Can also move the decorations over too, if you want.

 

[Squeegeatc]

No...I mean should I add ammonia now, since I can't add fish until Wednesday night?  I don't want the bacteria I introduced to die!!!
 
We are using a different color substrate.    I could put it in a mesh bag if that would help???

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Just wait.
 
Add the old fish to the new tank... move the filter media to the new tank...
 
 
Then give it about a week to settle.  Not all the bacteria live in the filter, so there may be a 'bit' of a spike of ammonia, but you might not be able to get a reading, due to the size of the new volume of water.
 
 
Then you would be in a 'fish-in' cycle, in terms of future stocking.  In other words, you only have sufficient bacteria for your current bioload.  Adding more fish adds to the bioload, so do it slowly.

I'd recommend setting up the 10 as a quarantine tank (QT) for the future.  That tank, you'd want to cycle with ammonia.  The good news is, if you leave the substrate in place there will already be some of the bacteria you want in place.  So, you wouldn't be starting from scratch in that tank either.
 
Then, when getting new fish... place them in the 10 gallon for about two weeks to watch for diseases, etc.  After they are clean for 2-4 weeks, they can be moved to the larger tank...just match their temps.  The water chemistry SHOULD be relatively identical, assuming you are doing proper maintenance and water changes.

 

[ShinySideUp]

If you've moved the bacteria-laden filter material in to the new tank filter you don't need to cycle if your fish load is the same -- the bacteria don't care what tank they are in. You need only leave the new water until the temp has stabilised and the chlorine has gassed off -- maybe 24 hours -- and you can move your filter material and the fish over to the new tank at the same time. It would be better if you can also move over most of the old water too to avoid any shock to the fish.
 
Let everything stabilise for a couple of weeks then you can look to introduce new fish.
 
Whatever you do, don't try to mix fish-in and fishless cycling as you will kill all your fish.

 
I suppose I only implied it in my previous post so I'll say it outright; do not put ammonia in your new tank if you intend to move the fish with your existing filter media.
 
You need only move the media when you move the fish so there is no worry about dead bacteria.

 

[Squeegeatc]

OK.   I think I got it.  lol   Like I said, it is amazing that I havn't had more loss in the past.   Shoot even now-----I tested the tank with the dreaded test strips.   Not accurate, I know, but NONE of my shops have supplies because of the snow up north.  Anyway, the nitrates are throught the roof.   I did a 1/3 water change and they didn't even budge.   The fish are happy as clams, swimming all over the place.   I'll do another water change tomorrow and pray it lowers the levels.  All other readings are OK per test strips.  If there is any sign of stress, I'll move a few to the new tank early.  My husband really wants to be here when we do it.  So I'm trying to wait.
 
Thank you all so much for the help!!!!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Best to just get the nitrates under control first... do daily water changes and the nitrates will come down.
 
Roughly 25% daily will be good...
 
Also, since you are dealing with high nitrates, use as much of the old tank water as you can when transferring the fish, so that they don't go into any type of shock.   Sounds like the tank may have a touch of 'Old Tank Syndrome' and massive changes in water parameters will be deadly to your fish.  Also, introducing new fish into that water will likely kill them as well.
 
 
Incidentally, removing as much of the water as you can from the old tank before moving the fish will also make catching them to move them MUCH easier.

 

[Squeegeatc]

Should I do water changes using the new tank water?  That was what I did today.   Old water went into a bucket, new tank water into the old tank, then old water back into the new tank. 

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I'd toss the old tank water for now, until right before you move the fish... Do another water change Tuesday, and use new water from tap (with dechlorinator, which also deals with heavy metals and chloramines, which are not removed by gassing off). Discard that old water.

And then when you transfer the fish on Wednesday... Remove some water from the new tank, enough to allow water from the old tank to fill it up. Then remove 75-90% of the water from the old tank! and put it into the new tank. Then move the fish. Top up the new tank, as necessary.

Then move the filter media from the old tank and put it into the new filter, just as long as it fits... Cut it up as necessary make it fit.


Refill the old tank, replace media into the old filter on the old tank and start cycling it. Adding sufficient ammonia to make 3ppm, according to the calculator at the top of the forum. Then start testing. Follow the directions on the Cycle your tank, thread. But consider your tank, seeded, not fresh - as you will have a fair amount of bacteria in the old tank on surfaces that you aren't moving to the new tank. It shouldn't take that long to cycle, compared to starting fresh.

 

[Squeegeatc]

Wow---I just looked up the Old Tank Syndrome.   This is probably exactly what happened.   Amazing that the black skirts I added just last week are doing so well, honestly.  I'm a tad concerned that moving them tomorrow will be too big of a shock.  I hope today's water change helps bring the levels down a bit.