A Wild Idea, Would It Work?

[ColR1948]

We keep reading threads/topics about cycling filters, what seems to be the quickest way is to add media from an already cycled filter to the new filter.

Now this got me think, if I/we have an already cycled filter, what if some of the media was taken from it and frozen in a sealed plastic bag to be used at a later date or even passed on to somebody who wants to get their filter started.

My question is: Would it still be active once thawed and will it work?

(IF) it did work then if it was passed on there would be no immediate rush to get it home and introduce it before the bacteria died.

Your thoughts and comments please.

 

[jojouk]

Well, in theory, I dont see why it wouldnt work. Bacteria dont die when frozen, they go into hibernation, so there is no real reason why it shouldnt work. Worth a test run I think!

If they did die when in the cold,how would plant roots survive the winter?

 

[DrRob]

I've seen various debates on this before. I can see reasons why it would work, and reasons why it wouldn't.

It'd depend a lot on how stable the conditions in the biofilm were to freezing (not to mention the substrate). Also some bacteria aren't stable in sub zero conditions, or don't actually stop metabolising and therefore run out of food and die anyway.

After that it would rely on the culture surviving the reanimation process.

The cynic in me says that if it worked then the big companies would be selling it already. The other cynic in me says that that would kill sales of their other products.

I've also moved this one to the scientific section, as I suspect it'll be better discussed there.

 

[ColR1948]

Thanks Doc, I think the only was would be to test it really.

You mention the big companies would already be selling it and/or it would kill their sales, I/we often read of someone making a fuel for next to nothing to run a car and even proved then all of a sudden it is hushed up, possibly by the big companies so who knows lol.

I am definitely going to try it, but wondering what period of time to do the experiment do you think?

 

[gilaesther]

I imagine that to get a real idea of if it would work, you would want to try several different time periods. I.e. 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 2 months, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 months. Then you'd know how long it would be viable up to a year.

 

[DrRob]

To test it initially you'd only have to get it frozen down properly and then defrost. A day or two would do the job. That would eliminate problems with the freezing or reanimation processes. You would then need 2 similar (if not identical) set ups, one running without the media, one with, cycling side by side and see which one runs faster.

Then you can go with freezing for longer and comparing cycling times. If you had a whole pile of tanks then you could test controls against samples frozen for different durations.

Of course, you then have to work out how to store and transport frozen biologicals without the authorities complaining, and reassure the customers that they're not going to get anything nasty from your tanks.

 

[ColR1948]

Thanks again, I have been doing a bit of research, it is possible we may be on to something but i'm not counting my chickens yet lol.

I found out bacteria (not aquarium) can be frozen and can go in a sort of dormant state and when thawed it usually comes to life again so to speak. Some bacteria has been frozen for long periods and after thawing it goes back to it's original state, so like i say this wasn't bacteria from an aquarium but the chances are it might still work.

 

[ColR1948]

OK, I finally got round to doing the Freezing Media idea, I put the wet (not soaking in water) in a sealed freezer bag and in the freezer it went.

Now after a period of say a couple of weeks and I take it out, after it has thawed a little in the tank water then I put it back in the filter, how do you suggest I do the water test?

Shall I wait a day to let it get established and if so how can I tell if it is still active, I mean I can put new filter media in a filter and after a day the readings would be zero so how can I tell the difference, is the answer staring me in the face and I'm too thick to see it, please help?

 

[the_lock_man]

To test it, you'd need to put the media in an empty filter in an unstocked tank, and add say 1ppm of bottled ammonia. Test again the next day, and see if any of the ammonia had been processed.

 

[ColR1948]

Ah! Yes the answer was staring me in the face, for some reason I was thinking if I add Ammonia it would be a step back but as you say 1ppm isn't much and I should see a result, thank you.

 

[fluttermoth]

That's how i set up new tanks (except I don't freeze the media, of course!).

i get the tank set up and use fish food for a few days (while I check for leaks, tweak temperature and aquascape) until I have a reading of 1 or 2ppm (without ammonia it's difficult to get a higher ammonia level than that).

Then I add the media from another tank, last thing at night, and check when I get up in morning. If the ammonia and nitrite are zero, the I know I'm good to stock.

The same method should work for you, although you have the ammonia, so it'll be easier (and quicker and cleaner!) to use that now.

 

[Zikofski]

this sounds very interesting and if worked could help allot of people who are trying or wanting to move say home and it takes severals hours or even a few days to get things up and running again, my question is, is there any weight difference when it comes to normal wet media to frozen media, i don't think there should be, but will be interesting, is it also easier to say post a solid frozen media to sort wet media? my next question is how long dose the bacteria last in wet media without water flowing through it like in a bag, say i posted some media from one end of the country to the next and it takes 3 to 5 days to get there, in that time will it be dead? or not? if so again freezing it will help hugely

to be honest i hope this works

 

[ColR1948]

Hi Zikofski, Thanks for the interest, to be honest I'm not sure yet, I took it out of freezing this morning and put in in a filter I had set up ready also added some Ammonia, so I'll test tomorrow.

As for the weight different it wasn't any big difference really, but posting might be a problem, obviously it would have to be packed properly in case it leaked of course but again I'm not sure how long the bacteria would last without water pumping through it once thawed, plus we are not sure yet if it will be active till after the test.

I have read about people turning their filters off doing water changes and forgetting to plug them back in and after many hours the bacteria has still be OK but I'm not expert on how long it would remain OK.

The idea for anyone moving home or going on a longish journey with the media is more what I was thinking or storing it for later use in the prospect of setting up a tank in the future that sort of thing.

So now it's fingers crossed for the result, I put some more in the freezer this morning and if this does work I'll leave this second batch a bit longer.

 

[ColR1948]

Well here is the update, I'm not sure if it is what was expected. I left the media in the filter running 24 hours after dosing with Ammonia then tested.
PH - 6
NH3 - 0.50

So do I water change or leave it for another 24 hours to see if the NH3 goes down?
Aslo for reference before I froze the media the water reading was NH3 - 0

 

[Zikofski]

okay,

what did you have in the tank and what did you do to make ammonia go up like did you put 1ppm ammonia in and its now reduced to 0.5?

and i would have left it to see if it goes down