A Few Questions About Plants...

[DAlmond123]

1. How do you go about changing the substrate? I have large gravel and I would want to change it to bb sized gravel or sand. But will a lot of beneficial bacteria be lost?

2. Would 5 watts per gallon on a 10 gallon tank still be considered low light? I've heard that they require more light, since the tank is smaller. Thus meaning that the 1 wpg rule doesn't work the same with smaller tanks.

3. What would be some good plants for a tank that has 2 watts per gallon?

 

[three-fingers]

1. Take out the old substrate, put new stuff in. Not really any easy way around it. Yes, a lot of bacteria will be lost, but as long as the filter bacteria are OK it's nothing to worry about.

2. It would be best for you to ignore wpg rules for now. "5 wpg" could be either very high or low light, depends entirely on the type of light source (i.e. mercury vapour bulb or HOT5 tubes?). I would try to focus more on getting light spread evenly throughout the tank. For example, use long tubes instead of compact fluorescents. To make it easy, I would recommend 2 x T8 tubes roughly the same length of the tank.

3.Depends entirely on what type of light your using, lighting levels will vary greatly. But if we're talking about long T8 or T5 tubes, basically all plants, but some will require other factors to be perfect too, like circulation, CO2 and other fertilisers.

 

[DAlmond123]

1. Take out the old substrate, put new stuff in. Not really any easy way around it. Yes, a lot of bacteria will be lost, but as long as the filter bacteria are OK it's nothing to worry about.

2. It would be best for you to ignore wpg rules for now. "5 wpg" could be either very high or low light, depends entirely on the type of light source (i.e. mercury vapour bulb or HOT5 tubes?). I would try to focus more on getting light spread evenly throughout the tank. For example, use long tubes instead of compact fluorescents. To make it easy, I would recommend 2 x T8 tubes roughly the same length of the tank.

3.Depends entirely on what type of light your using, lighting levels will vary greatly. But if we're talking about long T8 or T5 tubes, basically all plants, but some will require other factors to be perfect too, like circulation, CO2 and other fertilisers.

Thanks for the reply!

The lighting fixture on the tank that has "5 wpg" is the one that came with the tank. The bulb says on the packaging that it is a Medium T-10. It's a compact fluorescent & not a long tube.

The bulb that gives my other tank 2 watts per gallons is a T-12 bulb. Could you be a little more specific on your answers though? I'll name everything that my lfs carry: anacharis, cabomba, crypts, jungle vals, italian vals, amazon swords, melon swords, oriental swords, brazil swords, java ferns, java moss, red ludwigia, dwarf sagittaria, water onions, temple plants, and anubias. Could you tell me what will or won't work in my tank. I plan to go get plants this weekend.

 

[three-fingers]

Thanks for the reply!

The lighting fixture on the tank that has "5 wpg" is the one that came with the tank. The bulb says on the packaging that it is a Medium T-10. It's a compact fluorescent & not a long tube.

The bulb that gives my other tank 2 watts per gallons is a T-12 bulb. Could you be a little more specific on your answers though? I'll name everything that my lfs carry: anacharis, cabomba, crypts, jungle vals, italian vals, amazon swords, melon swords, oriental swords, brazil swords, java ferns, java moss, red ludwigia, dwarf sagittaria, water onions, temple plants, and anubias. Could you tell me what will or won't work in my tank. I plan to go get plants this weekend.

No problem .

Need way more info on lighting and the tank to give proper advice.

Going to need dimensions of both tanks, and a picture of this "medium T-10" bulb as I'm not familiar with this type. 5wpg over a 10 gal tank means it must be 50W...are you sure this is actually a florescent bulb?

I presume the single T12 bulb giving 2wpg must be over a very thin long tank. Also, if it doesnt have a reflector over it, it wont be 2wpg, and most "wpg" ratings you see on websites selling plants will be based on more efficient T8 tubes.

Do either bulbs use reflectors?

Also, like I said, lighting is certainly not the only factor. What kind of water circulation does the tank have, substrate and do you dose any fertilisers? And what is the pH of your water?

Safe bets are usually Egeria densa (what your lfs calls Anacharis), Sagittaria subulata (dwarf sag), Hygrophila corymbosa (temple plant), Java fern and Anubias would be the best bets without knowing more information IMO, but even these may not work depending on the tank.

For example, with a low flow and/or high lighting, the Anubias will probably just get covered in algae, as the Java fern may - even though neither species need high lighting, any ferts or special substrates.

If the lightings too low or the temperature too high, the E.densa will just grow very stringy/ugly and block out all the light to other plants.

The dwarf sag would be suitable in a low-light tank, but may overcrowd and tangle up all the other plants in a tank as small as 10gals if the lightings very high IME.

Vallis would be fine in high-medium light but doesnt usually do well at first with lower pH values.

Loads more I could mention, but it would be easier for you just to try give some more info .

 

[DAlmond123]

Thanks for letting me know about all of that.

I'll have to get in detail with all of the stuff tomorrow. I'm not at home right now.

 

[DAlmond123]

Thanks for the reply!

The lighting fixture on the tank that has "5 wpg" is the one that came with the tank. The bulb says on the packaging that it is a Medium T-10. It's a compact fluorescent & not a long tube.

The bulb that gives my other tank 2 watts per gallons is a T-12 bulb. Could you be a little more specific on your answers though? I'll name everything that my lfs carry: anacharis, cabomba, crypts, jungle vals, italian vals, amazon swords, melon swords, oriental swords, brazil swords, java ferns, java moss, red ludwigia, dwarf sagittaria, water onions, temple plants, and anubias. Could you tell me what will or won't work in my tank. I plan to go get plants this weekend.

No problem .

Need way more info on lighting and the tank to give proper advice.

Going to need dimensions of both tanks, and a picture of this "medium T-10" bulb as I'm not familiar with this type. 5wpg over a 10 gal tank means it must be 50W...are you sure this is actually a florescent bulb?

I presume the single T12 bulb giving 2wpg must be over a very thin long tank. Also, if it doesnt have a reflector over it, it wont be 2wpg, and most "wpg" ratings you see on websites selling plants will be based on more efficient T8 tubes.

Do either bulbs use reflectors?

Also, like I said, lighting is certainly not the only factor. What kind of water circulation does the tank have, substrate and do you dose any fertilisers? And what is the pH of your water?

Safe bets are usually Egeria densa (what your lfs calls Anacharis), Sagittaria subulata (dwarf sag), Hygrophila corymbosa (temple plant), Java fern and Anubias would be the best bets without knowing more information IMO, but even these may not work depending on the tank.

For example, with a low flow and/or high lighting, the Anubias will probably just get covered in algae, as the Java fern may - even though neither species need high lighting, any ferts or special substrates.

If the lightings too low or the temperature too high, the E.densa will just grow very stringy/ugly and block out all the light to other plants.

The dwarf sag would be suitable in a low-light tank, but may overcrowd and tangle up all the other plants in a tank as small as 10gals if the lightings very high IME.

Vallis would be fine in high-medium light but doesnt usually do well at first with lower pH values.

Loads more I could mention, but it would be easier for you just to try give some more info .

I made an error because the T-12 bulb doesn't give my tank 2 wpg it gives it .3 wpg and I'm surprised my Java Ferns and Melon Swords have been holding up nicely. So all of that can just be thrown out. I need to upgrade my ballast before trying any other plants. Right?

I just found out the medium T-10 is incandescent. Does that change the wpg?

Both tanks have large gravel and they each get a dose of Seachem Flourish two times a week. They have good circulation like where the water moves across the whole tank at all times. The pH is around 7.

The T-12 bulb does have a reflector.

EDIT: Pic of bulb =

 

[three-fingers]

I made an error because the T-12 bulb doesn't give my tank 2 wpg it gives it .3 wpg and I'm surprised my Java Ferns and Melon Swords have been holding up nicely. So all of that can just be thrown out. I need to upgrade my ballast before trying any other plants. Right?

Not too surprising, people used to use T12's to grow plants all the time with some great results. Don't necessarily need to throw it out, maybe just add a T8 bulb to the tank as well to more than double the light. It's usually easy to retrofit an extra lighting tube into most hoods, and is much cheaper than buying a whole new lighting unit. Unless you particularly want to.

Anubias, crypts and Java moss should then thrive, and you existing plants should grow faster

I just found out the medium T-10 is incandescent. Does that change the wpg?

It does change the "wpg" because it will put out vastly less light per watt compared to florescent tubes. I wouldent try anything other than crypts, Anubias, Java fern and moss under it.

Both tanks have large gravel and they each get a dose of Seachem Flourish two times a week.

Does the gravel have lots of nice built up mulm in it? Are the tanks decently stocked with decently high phosphate and nitrate levels? Reason I as is that Seachem Flourish mainly just contains trace elements for plants. It barely provides any NPK (nitrogen, phosphate and potassium)that plants need more of, and if your going to be increasing the light and growing more demanding species, you will need to make sure your plants don't encounter any deficiencies in order to avoid a out of algae. Read about different ferts here: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=282912&st=0&p=2351877&#entry2351877

They have good circulation like where the water moves across the whole tank at all times.

Can you say what type of filter your tank is using and what flow rate it has? While not the most important factor, a great way to give plants the edge over algae is to give a very high and even circulation. Its generally recommended to aim for 10x the tanks volume per hour of turnover, preferably spread out using a spraybar or more than one filter/circulation pump. So for a 10gal tank, you want a total of 100gph between one or more pumps. Like I said, not totally necessary, and not the most important factor, but it really helps IME.

The pH is around 7.

Vallis shouldn't have a problem with this water then (it prefers hard alkaline water, but can adapt to soft acidic conditions, though it often dies back in the process.

The T-12 bulb does have a reflector.

Cool, any "WPG" values you see assume a reflector is being used.

 

[DAlmond123]

I made an error because the T-12 bulb doesn't give my tank 2 wpg it gives it .3 wpg and I'm surprised my Java Ferns and Melon Swords have been holding up nicely. So all of that can just be thrown out. I need to upgrade my ballast before trying any other plants. Right?

Not too surprising, people used to use T12's to grow plants all the time with some great results. Don't necessarily need to throw it out, maybe just add a T8 bulb to the tank as well to more than double the light. It's usually easy to retrofit an extra lighting tube into most hoods, and is much cheaper than buying a whole new lighting unit. Unless you particularly want to.

Anubias, crypts and Java moss should then thrive, and you existing plants should grow faster

Do you know where I can get cheap bulbs & lighting units?

I just found out the medium T-10 is incandescent. Does that change the wpg?

It does change the "wpg" because it will put out vastly less light per watt compared to florescent tubes. I wouldent try anything other than crypts, Anubias, Java fern and moss under it.

I'll try to upgrade around Christmas time & get some fluorescents lights. But if the lights don't have reflectors will that limit the wpg too? I just got them because the incandescent lights last longer imo.

Both tanks have large gravel and they each get a dose of Seachem Flourish two times a week.

Does the gravel have lots of nice built up mulm in it? Are the tanks decently stocked with decently high phosphate and nitrate levels? Reason I as is that Seachem Flourish mainly just contains trace elements for plants. It barely provides any NPK (nitrogen, phosphate and potassium)that plants need more of, and if your going to be increasing the light and growing more demanding species, you will need to make sure your plants don't encounter any deficiencies in order to avoid a out of algae. Read about different ferts here: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=282912&st=0&p=2351877&#entry2351877

It has nice build up of mulm. Does seachem make a product that contains more nitrogen, phosphate, and potassium? Many people were telling me about that last part. I'm glad you reminded me. I just want to be able to have a successful planted tank without the use of CO2.

They have good circulation like where the water moves across the whole tank at all times.

Can you say what type of filter your tank is using and what flow rate it has? While not the most important factor, a great way to give plants the edge over algae is to give a very high and even circulation. Its generally recommended to aim for 10x the tanks volume per hour of turnover, preferably spread out using a spraybar or more than one filter/circulation pump. So for a 10gal tank, you want a total of 100gph between one or more pumps. Like I said, not totally necessary, and not the most important factor, but it really helps IME.

I use the Aqua-Tech filters. I have the 5-15 on my 10 gallon tank, and the 40-60 on my 55 gallon. I'm not sure on the gph.

The pH is around 7.

Vallis shouldn't have a problem with this water then (it prefers hard alkaline water, but can adapt to soft acidic conditions, though it often dies back in the process.

Would any of the other plants I listed not like my pH?

The T-12 bulb does have a reflector.

Cool, any "WPG" values you see assume a reflector is being used.

Thanks for that & all the replies.

 

[three-fingers]

Do you know where I can get cheap bulbs & lighting units?

Where are you located?

I'll try to upgrade around Christmas time & get some fluorescents lights. But if the lights don't have reflectors will that limit the wpg too? I just got them because the incandescent lights last longer imo.

If your incandescent bulbs are lasting longer, there's something wrong with your fluorescent control gear/bulbs. Though T12's controlled by magnetic ballasts aren't exactly great, they should still be better than incandescent.

Does seachem make a product that contains more nitrogen, phosphate, and potassium?

Nope, they do phophate, nitrogen and potassium in desperate bottles. Only all-in-one product I know of is Tropica Plant Nutrition+. Or mix your own using powders.

I'm not sure on the gph.

Google it . I'm not familiar with that type of filter, it may say on it, or at least the box.

Would any of the other plants I listed not like my pH?

Nope, all are fine.

 

[DAlmond123]

Do you know where I can get cheap bulbs & lighting units?

Where are you located?

In the U.S.

I'll try to upgrade around Christmas time & get some fluorescents lights. But if the lights don't have reflectors will that limit the wpg too? I just got them because the incandescent lights last longer imo.

If your incandescent bulbs are lasting longer, there's something wrong with your fluorescent control gear/bulbs. Though T12's controlled by magnetic ballasts aren't exactly great, they should still be better than incandescent.

Ok. Maybe they are getting water in the hole. One time the bottom piece was burnt and I had to dissemble the ballast and get it out with some pliers.

Does seachem make a product that contains more nitrogen, phosphate, and potassium?

Nope, they do phophate, nitrogen and potassium in desperate bottles. Only all-in-one product I know of is Tropica Plant Nutrition+. Or mix your own using powders.

Is Tropica Plant Nutrition+ available in the U.S.?

I'm not sure on the gph.

Google it . I'm not familiar with that type of filter, it may say on it, or at least the box.

Ok, I did. The 5-15 gallon filter has a flow of 125 GPH. The 40-60 gallon filter has a flow of 380 gph. Is that good?

Would any of the other plants I listed not like my pH?

Nope, all are fine.

Thanks!

 

[three-fingers]

Do you know where I can get cheap bulbs & lighting units?

Not sure on best prices or where to get in the US (try your lfs I guess), but this is a great value option to add to your tank with the T12 bulb: http/www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=1314&pf_id=51541&co=fr .

And this would be a good option for your 10gal (either one or two of them) : http/www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10977/product.web .

Or just go for a smaller T8/T5 tube.

Is Tropica Plant Nutrition+ available in the U.S.?

Probably somewhere, you'll have to look. It's always cheaper to buy dry powders though. Buying the Seachem ferts will probably be just as good value. They cost more, because there's multiple bottles, but they will last longer.

Ok, I did. The 5-15 gallon filter has a flow of 125 GPH. The 40-60 gallon filter has a flow of 380 gph. Is that good?

Easy to work out, like I said, 10x the tanks volume per hour, preferably from more than one source or using a spraybar.

The 10gal has a good flow rate, at 12.5 circulations an hour (though it will have the effect of much less if it's a HOB).

The 55gal only has a flow rate of 6.9 circulations an hour, which isnt great though could be better. Again, f the filter is a HOB, the circulation will be significantly worse. Adding a small powerhead to the opposite side of the filter would help a lot.

Remember, circulation isnt the most important thing, but I find it really does help.

 

[DAlmond123]

Thanks! One last question though, what is the powder? I've never heard of them.

 

[three-fingers]

http/www.ukaps.org/EI.htm

That tells you about dry powders and how they can be used using the EI method.

http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

That one tells you how to very cheaply make your own liquid fertiliser using the powders, which is basically the same as Tropica Plant Nutrition+.

 

[DAlmond123]

I think I will stick with liquid ferts & root tabs. That's a little too much.