3 weeks in, no nitrites or nitrates yet

[GaryE]

Pure ammonia is something I have never found in a grocery around here, in Canada. It doesn't seem a popular enough product to still be stocked. So I can see why the OP is still looking.

In 56 years with fish, probably a few hundred tanks set up successfully, I've never done a fishless cycle. I looked for ammonia because I thought it might be interesting to try once, but when i couldn't find it, I just moved on. Local fish club people would cycle a filter for newcomers, and I've given extra cycled media I 'cultivated' to quite a few people. With some plants and patience, it isn't hard.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Pure ammonia is something I have never found in a grocery around here, in Canada. It doesn't seem a popular enough product to still be stocked. So I can see why the OP is still looking.

Here you go guys:
@GaeryE Ammonium Chloride
@Tissue Tenant Fishless Fuel

 

[Ichthys]

You must have missed the quote in Post #3

One can read about Dr. Hovanec's qualifications here https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/about-dr-tim/

No, you just misread it.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

No read it again. I copied and pasted it from this section in his article on fishless cycling:

Using shrimp or fish food​

One of the more popular fishless cycling methods is to buy a few dead shrimp at the grocery store, cut them up into chunks and add them to the aquarium. The shrimp decay, which produces ammonia to feed the nitrifying bacteria. There are a few drawbacks with this method, one being that the hobbyist really has no way to know how much ammonia is being produced by the decaying shrimp, and the aquarium does not look very good with dead shrimp laying on the bottom. Also, the organic material of the shrimp can cause bacteria blooms which turn the aquarium water cloudy. This method works but it takes time and patience and you will probably see a spike in ammonia and nitrite if you add a medium to heavy load of fish after the initial cycling. Note that some people use flake fish food instead of shrimp but this is not recommended because flake food does not have much organic material compared to shrimp and so does not add a lot of ammonia to the water, but you can use cut fish instead of shrimp. Hint: to speed up the decay of the shrimp/fish and produce more ammonia, add some DrTim’s Aquatics Waste-Away sludge busting bacteria to the tank.

Go here and read it for yourself: FISHLESS CYCLING

 

[Ichthys]

Lol. It hasn’t changed. Still doesn’t say it.

Many people use fish food to cycle. It takes longer than ammonia for the reason I mentioned, but it works. Search any forum and you’ll find people who have done it.

Where does the ammonia produced by fish come from? It comes from the food we put into the tank.

 

[Slaphppy7]

Okay, I'll look into getting a new heater because mine is cranked all the way up. My house might be cold hahaha. I'm using TopFin 5-in-1 test strips for most things, then an API liquid test kit for ammonia.

I'll look into getting some dead shrimp, then! Thank you for the advice!

I recommend getting the API Freshwater Master Test kit, you want to use a liquid test kit for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, and ph

The paper test strips can be inaccurate and unreliable, especially if aged

Did I miss you posting an ammonia reading here, using the API kit you have? Just reread over the thread, and didn't see one

If you haven't tested ammonia in a while, test now and post that result here

And get that master test kit, ASAP: https://apifishcare.com/product/freshwater-master-test-kit

 

[GaryE]

Here you go guys:
@GaeryE Ammonium Chloride
@Tissue Tenant Fishless Fuel

My comment was that ammonia isn't around groceries here, as per the discussion. Of course you can buy from chemical supply companies. But since I consider fishless cycling to be unnecessary, and maybe just an experiment for some rainy week, that is a lot of ammonia.

There seems to be some quick, not very in depth reading going on here.

Paper test strips, properly stored, have been proven again and again to be as good as reagent kits. They just cost a lot more per test, and that's the real issue. When I've tested water out in lakes and rivers in the south, I haven't bothered with all the little bottles. Like many aquarists, I have run tests with strips beside reagent kits, and gotten identical results every time.

Either way, for the problem @TissueTenant is facing, there are easier solutions. I'm not sure you need a big jar of powdered ammonia to start one tank. It may be your only option - remember that with our climate, any liquid ordered from the south to the average home will freeze, and potentially leak. Fast growing plants from a local store will be a lot easier to get.

 

[TissueTenant]

Did I miss you posting an ammonia reading here, using the API kit you have? Just reread over the thread, and didn't see one

If you haven't tested ammonia in a while, test now and post that result here

I test the ammonia every few days with a liquid test kit, it's stayed at 2ppm for the whole time basically.
Thank you everyone for all your help and suggestions! I'll keep looking for ammonia, or try ordering it online if I can find one that isn't $30+ in shipping!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

@Tissue Tenant
Can you please post exactly what sort of fish food you were using to make ammonia?

GaryE-
Since you said you had so many tanks I figured the big jug was better for you. But you can use the Fuel I suggested for TT to try a single fishless cycle to satisfy your curiosity. It is for one or two tanks cycling. I have the big jug ammonium chloride because it is more cost efficient for me. I used to use Dr. Tim's but I now duplicate it myself using the Fritz dry. So the Fritz Fishless Fuel would be fine for you as well.

You both can also get Dr. Tims One and Only One and Only 2 oz free shipping $16.99.

If you want to see how I cycle in the biofarm and have not seen this thread, https://www.fishforums.net/threads/...-15-filters-to-go-into-8-summer-tanks.481266/


Next, most of the ammonia from fish comes from the fish exhaling not from their poop or urine.

Ammonia is formed from the metabolism of protein and is the major waste product of fish. The majority of ammonia from fish is excreted through the gills, with relatively little being lost through urine and feces. Ammonia is also formed as uneaten feed or other organic matter in an aquarium decomposes.

fromhttps://www.fdacs.gov/Consumer-Reso...um-Fish/Aquarium-Water-Quality-Nitrogen-Cycle

Ammonia in Aquatic Systems​

Ruth Francis-Floyd, Craig Watson, Denise Petty, and Deborah B. Pouder
Introduction

All animals excrete waste in the process of metabolizing food into the energy, nutrients, and proteins they use for survival and growth. In fish, this primary metabolic waste product is ammonia.

In fish, the majority of ammonia is eliminated from the body primarily by diffusion through the fish’s gills into the water. Smaller amounts are excreted in the urine or across other tissues.

from https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA031

And here is the real kicker in this. The above facts about how fish excrete ammonia has been know for close to 100 years.

THE EXCRETION OF AMMONIA AND UREA BY THE
GILLS OF FISH.
BY HOMER W. SMITH.
(From the Department of Physiology, University and Bellevue Hospital
Medical College, New York.)
(Received for publication, January 23, 1929.)
A very small total nitrogen excretion by way of the urine ap-
pears to be typical of fish. This statement is attested by the
analysis of Lophius urine reported by Denis (l), Marshall and
Grafflin (2), and Grollman (3) and by the analysis of the urines of
Mediterranean fish reported by Edwards and Condorelli (4).
Further evidence is presented in Table I, in analyses of urines
removed or collected by catheter from fresh and salt water fish,
both fasted and in the active process of digestion. .............

We were led by the above and other facts to suspect that nitro-
gen, possibly as ammonia or urea, was being lost from the body
by some route other than the kidneys, and the gills appeared to
offer the most probable avenue for this escape.

You can read the whole paper here https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...a6176b2&pid=1-s2.0-S0021925818637251-main.pdf

 

[TissueTenant]

I have some ammonia on the way now, it'll be here on Friday. Should I completely empty the tank and restart from scratch, or is it better to leave it how it is and just add the drops for more ammonia when the level starts dropping? The water in there is super cloudy and gross too, if that matters.

 

[Ichthys]

The cloudiness is from a heterotrophic bacteria bloom. You can change the water to remove most of it but there’s no need to start again.

 

[FishAddict74]

Hello! I've been doing a fishless cycle for my 10 gallon tank using fish food as the ammonia source. My parameters are are like:
Ammonia: 2ppm
pH: 7.5
Alkalinity: 300ppm
Total Hardness: 25ppm
Nitrite and Nitrate: 0ppm
Water temperature: 69.8 F / 21 C

The tank itself is super cloudy and everything is coated in a ton of biofilm. There's 2 plants in it (a java fern and a moneywort). The water is dechlorinated as well, following the directions on the bottle. I have an HOB filter running 24/7 as well. I leave the light on for the plants about 8 hours a day.
I haven't added any bacteria in a bottle since I've heard mixed reviews on it, but should I do that? I've tried adding a tiny bit of soil from my garden to introduce some nitrifying bacteria near the beginning, but it didn't do anything either. I'd really appreciate some help, since I'm excited to get some fish once it's done! Thank you!

I’d definitely add bottled bacteria, i usually add cycled media and bottled bacteria and stock light right away and my tanks are always cycled in a few days