2nd Time Lucky

[lgarvey]

Hi Guys,

I haven't posted on here for awhile. My last post a few months back was about my exploding fish tank, destroyed laminate floor, and then dead fish. I'd decided to pack it in for the time being after the spectacular failure. But having learnt from my mistakes -- largely due to lack of patience -- I have decided to start again. I have a 45 litre wave box tank sat on my desk with some LR: -

http/www.antlyn.com/fish/new1.jpg
http/www.antlyn.com/fish/new2.jpg

I'm going to move the external HD, and the mac itself is on a stand so if there was a leak non of my hardware is getting destroyed! I have a V2 nano skimmer that i'll be adding and there's now a the standard HOB filter on there. Also I have an 18w actinic bulbs coming in the post.

Question 1: There was no obvious feet to the tank, or polystyrene for underneath it but there was thin sheet of polystyrene (about 1-2mm think, which I think the glass lid came in) and I have used this underneath the tank whilst trying to make sure the underside was clean both on the desk and the bottom of the tank to prevent any bits of gravel or dirt causing stress on the glass. Do you think this is sufficient? I figure the tank weighs about 5-6 stone, so even though it's small there's a reasonable amount of weight in it. The desk itself *seems* fairly flat - no obvious bows in the wood, so the tank should be seated level on the desk.

Question 2: I have put cured live rock in the tank. I don't intend to try and keep any corals at this stage, I just want some fish and inverts. The LFS people say for a reef tank it needs to run with corals for 3 months with no fish. For a FOWLR tank, id' need to start it off with something hardy like a damsel and allow the tank to cycle for 6 weeks, even with the cured LR. However, I was under the impression this was unnecessary and the LR is processing the ammonia? Or is it really the case that nitrifying bacteria still need to colonise the filter? I don't fancy sticking a damsel in there then having to remove it after because it has claimed the whole tank as its territory.

I was under the impression the stocking process for FOWLR went like this: -

1. add cured LR & water
2. Monitor water and watch for mini cycles
3. When there's no trace of ammonia and nitrite (which may be from the case from the outset with cured LR) add 1 fish and the CuC
4. Wait a few weeks add another fish, stocking slowly

Or did I get it wrong?

Cheers,
L

 

[seffieuk]

Hi Guys,

I haven't posted on here for awhile. My last post a few months back was about my exploding fish tank, destroyed laminate floor, and then dead fish. I'd decided to pack it in for the time being after the spectacular failure. But having learnt from my mistakes -- largely due to lack of patience -- I have decided to start again. I have a 45 litre wave box tank sat on my desk with some LR: -

[URL="http/www.antlyn.com/fish/new1.jpg"]http/www.antlyn.com/fish/new1.jpg[/URL]
[URL="http/www.antlyn.com/fish/new2.jpg"]http/www.antlyn.com/fish/new2.jpg[/URL]

Great to see you back and tank looks really nice

I'm going to move the external HD, and the mac itself is on a stand so if there was a leak non of my hardware is getting destroyed! I have a V2 nano skimmer that i'll be adding and there's now a the standard HOB filter on there. Also I have an 18w actinic bulbs coming in the post.

sounds good

Question 1: There was no obvious feet to the tank, or polystyrene for underneath it but there was thin sheet of polystyrene (about 1-2mm think, which I think the glass lid came in) and I have used this underneath the tank whilst trying to make sure the underside was clean both on the desk and the bottom of the tank to prevent any bits of gravel or dirt causing stress on the glass. Do you think this is sufficient? I figure the tank weighs about 5-6 stone, so even though it's small there's a reasonable amount of weight in it. The desk itself *seems* fairly flat - no obvious bows in the wood, so the tank should be seated level on the desk.

sounds good, but it is likely the tank is supposed to sit directly on the stand/desk

Question 2: I have put cured live rock in the tank. I don't intend to try and keep any corals at this stage, I just want some fish and inverts. The LFS people say for a reef tank it needs to run with corals for 3 months with no fish.

Yes many old salties add corals first - in fact I seem to recall Steelhair recommending this. However most of us do the opposit now a days - add cuc, then a fish, maybe a coral and slowly buid the fish population

For a FOWLR tank, id' need to start it off with something hardy like a damsel and allow the tank to cycle for 6 weeks, even with the cured LR. However, I was under the impression this was unnecessary and the LR is processing the ammonia? Or is it really the case that nitrifying bacteria still need to colonise the filter? I don't fancy sticking a damsel in there then having to remove it after because it has claimed the whole tank as its territory.

Please don't stick a damsel in there, that is very 'old school' and cruel the tank will as you said cycle using the die off from your live rock if the lr is fully cured and hasn't been out of water or transported very far then you are likely to get quite a quick cycle, certainly nowhere near six weeks

I was under the impression the stocking process for FOWLR went like this: -

1. add cured LR & water

yep

2. Monitor water and watch for mini cycles

Yep

3. When there's no trace of ammonia and nitrite (which may be from the case from the outset with cured LR) add 1 fish and the CuC

Nope, wait for a nitrate spike, do a 50% water change, wait 24 hours, test again, if nitrate below <10 then add a cuc. Wait one week, test water, if nitrates below 10 add first fish

4. Wait a few weeks add another fish, stocking slowly

Wait a week, test water, bet you have got the hang of it now

Or did I get it wrong?

Cheers,
L

Seffie x

 

[lgarvey]

Hi Seffie,

Thank you for the warm welcome back, and the helpful advice!

My LFS seem pretty decent, but it's amazing that they're still stuck with outdated methods.

I don't have my test kit yet, but will begin testing as soon as I get it. The LR was out of the water for about 2 hours, so it's likely it'll go through some sort of cycle. Any ideas the typical time frame that cycling LR can take?

Incidently, in teh past I avoided LR like the plague to a morbid fear of bristle worms. I set the whole thing up, carefully touching the LR and squirming at the thought that there could be a bristleworm nearby. Then when I'd put the water in, in the tank and looked more closely I noticed a really small wriggling worm in the water =( =( =(

I am going to choose fish that actively pursue them - perhaps a fridmani and a six line. Evil things.

Cheers,
L

 

[seffieuk]

Hi Seffie,

Thank you for the warm welcome back, and the helpful advice!

you are very welcome

My LFS seem pretty decent, but it's amazing that they're still stuck with outdated methods.

not amazing at all, many are the same

I don't have my test kit yet, but will begin testing as soon as I get it. The LR was out of the water for about 2 hours, so it's likely it'll go through some sort of cycle. Any ideas the typical time frame that cycling LR can take?

that must be a priority to get the test kits if live rock was out of water then expect a cycle - difficult to say how long, maybe a couple of weeks if you are lucky

Incidently, in teh past I avoided LR like the plague to a morbid fear of bristle worms. I set the whole thing up, carefully touching the LR and squirming at the thought that there could be a bristleworm nearby. Then when I'd put the water in, in the tank and looked more closely I noticed a really small wriggling worm in the water =( =( =(

they are nasty looking things aren't they but, grow to love them, they are great little cuc. Ensire you have antihistimin in the cupboard, every reefer should keep some

I am going to choose fish that actively pursue them - perhaps a fridmani and a six line. Evil things.

Yep they would eat them, but, don't over stock with these types of preds. or you will have no cuc

Cheers,
L

Seffie x

ps don't forget the photos

 

[lgarvey]

Hi,

I have the test kits now and have just tested for ammonia. There's a slight reading on the Salifert test kit, but it's often difficult to make out just where the reading is at: -

<a href="http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3959431996/" target="_blank">http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3959431996/</a>

I'll monitor ammonia for a bit, and when it appears to drop I'll start observing nitrIte and nitrAte. When the nitrate spikes, I'll do the 50% w/c and begin stocking. Woot!

Question - small mythrax crab for a 45 L tank - good idea? I think they look seriously cool and would like one, but have heard of them getting out of hand and attacking fish and fellow inverts. A pom pom crab is also nice, but I hear they're reclusive and never come out.

The ideal CuC would consist of: -

1 x skunk cleaner
2 x blue legged hermit crabs
1 x mithrax crab
Some snails - not sure what you advise as the best algae eaters and how many for a 45L?

I tried to fit the v2 nano skimmer to the tank, but because it sits in the tank I then can't get the glass lid on. So I have ordered the Niagara 280 skimmer that fits this tank and sits on the back. It also has room for filter media, and I can use it to fit the Rowaphos pads I have. Fingers crossed the skimmer is decent!

I also have a copepod and rotifier culture that I set up. I was (am) toying with the idea of keeping a mandarin goby. So instead of rushing in I thought I would keep a copepod and rotifier culture for some time to see how much work/hassle it takes to keep running and how easy it would be to harvest large numbers of pods on a daily basis. I figure even if I decide against a dragonet (likely already have decided against keeping one) I can keep the pods and choose a fish that consumes them. Having a healthy active pod culture in the tank is always going to be of benefit. I got the copepod and rotifier culture from Reefworks.

Here's a couple of pics: -

<a href="http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3959432642/" target="_blank">http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3959432642/</a>
<a href="http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3958658841/" target="_blank">http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3958658841/</a>

They seem to be fine on the window ledge at the moment, but I suspect as it gets colder I may have to put a small heater in the container to keep them alive.

I plan to do a 10-12 litre (about 25% I suspect) weekly water change on the tank with water from the LFS (that is sold in 12L containers). Then I'll do a 2L w/c on the pod culture tank each fortnight. Nice and simple!

My old 300L malawi set up was a real chore to maintain. Water changes were cumbersome (and heavy), cleaning algae off the tank took ages. Cleaning the two external filters was messy and hard work. And if a fish needed removing (this happened a few times the sods), removing all the ocean rock to try and catch the fish was a real chore. So I know that a nano marine tank is regarded as difficult due to the potential for rapidly fluctuating parameters, but in terms of the actual maintenance - compared to a larger tank - it seems fairly easy! Especially given that the small amount of water means that I can change a significant amount of it on a weekly basis, which should help parameters remain fairly consistent. That and the skimmer I'll have running. If I ever get into trouble, I have a small 25L tank and a return pump. I could get an overflow box and turn the small pump into a sump full of LR rubble and macro algae. I suspect this won't be needed though.

 

[seffieuk]

Hi,

I have the test kits now and have just tested for ammonia. There's a slight reading on the Salifert test kit, but it's often difficult to make out just where the reading is at: -

<a href="http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3959431996/" target="_blank">http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3959431996/</a>

they are not salifert kits

I'll monitor ammonia for a bit, and when it appears to drop I'll start observing nitrIte and nitrAte. When the nitrate spikes, I'll do the 50% w/c and begin stocking. Woot!

yep

Question - small mythrax crab for a 45 L tank - good idea? I think they look seriously cool and would like one, but have heard of them getting out of hand and attacking fish and fellow inverts. A pom pom crab is also nice, but I hear they're reclusive and never come out.

as long as your rock is secure and you feed him, should be fine

The ideal CuC would consist of: -

1 x skunk cleaner
2 x blue legged hermit crabs
1 x mithrax crab
Some snails - not sure what you advise as the best algae eaters and how many for a 45L?


you need some sand shifting snails like ceriths or vibex about 5
and a couple of astraes

I tried to fit the v2 nano skimmer to the tank, but because it sits in the tank I then can't get the glass lid on. So I have ordered the Niagara 280 skimmer that fits this tank and sits on the back. It also has room for filter media, and I can use it to fit the Rowaphos pads I have. Fingers crossed the skimmer is decent!

fingers and toes crossed

I also have a copepod and rotifier culture that I set up. I was (am) toying with the idea of keeping a mandarin goby. So instead of rushing in I thought I would keep a copepod and rotifier culture for some time to see how much work/hassle it takes to keep running and how easy it would be to harvest large numbers of pods on a daily basis. I figure even if I decide against a dragonet (likely already have decided against keeping one) I can keep the pods and choose a fish that consumes them. Having a healthy active pod culture in the tank is always going to be of benefit. I got the copepod and rotifier culture from Reefworks.

I couldn't agree more, however don't rule out a small mandy, if you have a successful culture running that is large enough then it is do-able

Here's a couple of pics: -

<a href="http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3959432642/" target="_blank">http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3959432642/</a>
<a href="http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3958658841/" target="_blank">http/www.flickr.com/photos/42972607@N07/3958658841/</a>

They seem to be fine on the window ledge at the moment, but I suspect as it gets colder I may have to put a small heater in the container to keep them alive.

You wont need a heater, the central heating will be enough

I plan to do a 10-12 litre (about 25% I suspect) weekly water change on the tank with water from the LFS (that is sold in 12L containers). Then I'll do a 2L w/c on the pod culture tank each fortnight. Nice and simple!

Excellent plan

My old 300L malawi set up was a real chore to maintain. Water changes were cumbersome (and heavy), cleaning algae off the tank took ages. Cleaning the two external filters was messy and hard work. And if a fish needed removing (this happened a few times the sods), removing all the ocean rock to try and catch the fish was a real chore. So I know that a nano marine tank is regarded as difficult due to the potential for rapidly fluctuating parameters, but in terms of the actual maintenance - compared to a larger tank - it seems fairly easy! Especially given that the small amount of water means that I can change a significant amount of it on a weekly basis, which should help parameters remain fairly consistent. That and the skimmer I'll have running. If I ever get into trouble, I have a small 25L tank and a return pump. I could get an overflow box and turn the small pump into a sump full of LR rubble and macro algae. I suspect this won't be needed though.

sounds like you have it all sorted

Seffie x

ps can i ask a wee favour - would you set yourself up a photobucket account - that way we can see your photos in the thread

 

[aly_starh]

What fish are you going to get?

 

[lgarvey]

What fish are you going to get?

A clownfish false percula or occelaris (I think that's right). A small one!
A royal gramma or orchid dottyback or six line wrasse perhaps
And some kind of goby

Or

two clownfish

Or

a clownfish and a dragonet (this depends on how my pod culture fares)

What do you think? I just added the skimmer today. It's noisy, and the bubbles aren't reaching the top of the cup. It'll need some playing with I think.

 

[gavyshake123]

Sorri im new to the saltwater scene! what is this pod Tank your doing...is it some kind of feeding tank?

sorry, as i said im new

Gav

 

[lgarvey]

Sorri im new to the saltwater scene! what is this pod Tank your doing...is it some kind of feeding tank?

sorry, as i said im new

Gav

Hi Gav,

Yes it's a pod tank. It contains live copepods and rotifiers. It's just sat on the window ledge and I feed it with phytoplankton (a bottle of smelly green stuff I keep in the fridge), for them to eat. Apparently after about 3-4 weeks there will be a population explosion and then I can start straining off the pods and putting them in the main tank for them to colonise.

Basically I toyed with the idea of keeping a mandarin dragonot. But as they only eat 'pods putting one in a small tank is generally a death sentence and very cruel. But some people have had success keeping a separate pod culture for the mandarin, and I wanted to first see how easy that was. It seems dead simple, to be honest. Just need to do a water change once a fortnight and keep feeding the tank.

I bought the kit from reefworks and it included everything but the salted water. That's: - air pump and line, air regulator and check value, plastic container, phytoplankton and a culture of copepods and a culture of rotifiers. Easy.

Cheers,
L