29g?

[frenchpea2002]

I am getting a new 10 gal and I am thinking of doing a biotope of India, and I wanted to include Gouramis. So far I have 7 danios (currently in a 10g) so I want to increase the school to 9 or 11 and then have 3 yoyo or striped loaches, and then a gourami (or two or three?) as the centerpiece(s). It will have a penguin biofilter on it, 170 I think, and either sand or large smooth stones for the bottom. I am thinking I'll go with the sand, since it will do better for a planted tank, right?

anyway, here is my question: is this set up okay? how many gouramis should I get (and m/f ratio?) and do you have an opinion of how many danios I should finish my school with? Any other tips/suggestions/opinions?

Thanks!

 

[Tempestuousfury]

to the forum. Introduce yourself in the newbie section.

Since you have questions on fish other than gouramis, this post is better suited for the beginners section.

Danios: there is not a definite number so long as it is 7+. The more there are, the more movement in the tank.

As for the gourami, I do not think it would enjoy being in a tank with so many boisterous fish... You might want to rethink getting a gourami. If you are set on getting gouramis, I would only get one, since there would be added stress form all of the fast fish, and then aggression. Ratios depend on how many you want to get after hearing everyone out.
You might be able to get more, but I would suggest having lots of plants.

Why India?

 

[afireinside]

my gourami is timid, the poor thing was in a tank with very aggressive chiclids and oscars when i save him.

 

[Briarmoor]

I think you might be overstocking adding the gouramis to the load with the loaches and danios, maybe not if you only added one and kept up with maintenance, plus they don't seem to like fast or zippy swimmers. My gold gourami is always after my corys when they zip around, especially at feeding time. She is in a 10g until the 55 is cycled. She is okay with the neons, except when they chase each other. Then she pokes her head out of the log and gives them "the look".

From what people tell me, she may be a bit more territorial than the average gourami, especially a female. If you get gouramis, don't get 2 males, they may fight and probably a lot in a smaller tank. One of my friends has a Pearl in a 55g with live bearers and danios and had to move him out when she added Dwarfs as he terrorized them. They hid all the time until she moved him. The 2 dwarf gouramis get along. All are males. Pearls are not supposed to be as bad as 3-spots like my Gold, but all fish are individuals.

I wanted to add moss green tiger barbs to my 55g and others pointed out it would make the gourami nuts probably. I'll save them for the next tank since my husband won't stop talking about a red tailed shark. What is up with that? Those species could live together in a larger tank.

P.

 

[frenchpea2002]

wow, I'm sorry. The new one that I am getting is a 29, not a 10g, as the post said. The topic was correct...it's a 29g, NOT a 10. Is that still pushing the gourami? If it is, do you have any other suggestions of what I should get, or not get anything?

 

[sylvia]

In a 29 gallon, I think you are better off sticking to about 7-9 danios, 3 yoyo loaches and then getting one of the gourami species that doesn't spend all its time in the upper layers where the danios tend to dwell. Something like 3-5 croaking gouramies (planted tank I hope) would work well.

 

[frenchpea2002]

Well, I got my 29g today (horray!) and I am setting it up. I have put the sand in and am filling it part way with water so I can start the filter, and I am going to go get plants tomorrow. Any suggestions on what types of plants would go well with my set up? I figure I'll get 2 more danios, putting my school at 9, and then 3 yoyo (or whatever my lfs has) loaches and then 2-3 of the mid-dwelling gourami species. what might those be? Once my danios get settled in, I am going to drive to a fish store that used to be by my house, but moved about 45 minutes away, but they are really knowledgable and have great stock, so I'll run over everything with them before I buy. I suppose the extra commute time is worth the stress on the fish if they are way better stock, right?

Oh, and I chose India because I already have the danios. I may not go with the biotope, because the plants look like they are going to be difficult...and then if the gouramis don't work out, it leaves me open to any other fish...

 

[sylvia]

Something like 3-5 croaking gouramies (planted tank I hope) would work well.

Those are realy the only mid-dwelling gouramies that would work for you.

There are others but they are either very small (sparklers) and may be harassed or are too aggressive (paradisefish) and may kill some danios because of the limmited space.

All the other common species of gourami - banded, thick-lipped, moonlight, dwarf, honey, pearl, three-spot etc are top-dwellers. Some are also too big for your particular tank.

There's also fish like chocolate, licorice etc gouramies that are mid-dwellers but they wouldn't work because they are very fragile and need a tank set up especialy for them as a species tank. The chocolates also need to be in a very large group which means a larger tank is necessary.

Something you could try instead of gouramies are female bettas (they are closely related after all and from the same sort of area). A group of 4 minnimum could work. I would be slightly concerned about nipping - not by the danios as you might expect but by the loaches. Usualy yo-yos are ok about nipping but if a fish is very inactive, they may go for it anyway. Shouldn't be a huge problem with female bettas though. They are quite active fish.

 

[afireinside]

banded rainbow gourami's r pretty timid, least mine is.

 

[frenchpea2002]

instead of getting a group of female bettas, would a single male betta work, or would he find the danios extremely active and annoying, which would lead to aggression/nipping/killing them?

 

[sylvia]

You should probably avoid a male betta. It's for several reasons - what you said is one valid reason - the possibility of him turning aggressive if he's stressed/annoyed by them and the result being casualties. Another possibility is that he will get nipped. Male bettas don't tend to be particularly active and, though I've personaly never had bad experiences with danios, they could possibly nip. I'd be more worried about the tendency certain loaches (including yo-yos) have to nip slow, 'lazy', long-finned fish like bettas from time to time. the fact that danios occupy the top layers will make this worse as the betta will be forced to spend more time lower down - nearer to the loaches.

Is it that you just like the male betta's appearance more than a female's or is it that you don't want more than one? If it's the latter, you could always just get 1 female.

 

[Annastasia]

Male Bettas should not be kept with Danios. The chances of him ever turning on them and killing them is slim. He may chase them, a little. But mostly, they will nip nip nip at his fins. Then he can get infections, and it can cause problems. Also, long tailed male Bettas should not be kept in big tanks like that with fish like that. They will tire themselves out patrolling all that territory and then be slower. Especially ones with the longer fins. They can also have a bit more trouble getting to the surface to breathe, because it's farther up.

Bettas should also not be kept with Loaches. I find Loaches to be very nippy, especially Yoyos. They will nip at Female Bettas too. Though I find females to be better at fighting back...I still would not risk it. Females are generally faster, and since they have smaller fins, they aren't nearly as big a target as the Males. They can get nipped though...I've seen it happen. So, you COULD try it, but have a tank ready for the Betta(s) if it doesn't work out.

Sorry to be so negative... )

 

[sylvia]

Like I said before, my experiences with danios haven't been so negative but you are quite right that it's risky. Having seperate tank(s) ready for the betta(s) if you go for those is a very good idea in case things don't work out.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I disagree about not keeping male bettas in larger tanks. I think this is a misconception that stems from the idea that wild bettas live in 'rice paddies' and all that. I have kept bettas in communities - both males and females - and they have all lived long healthy lives. If you think about it, letting the betta swim around more can't be bad for it. The idea that they get 'tired' or 'aren't good swimmers' and so forth is totaly unfounded as far as I'm concerned. I mean, they are fish aren't they They swim... To be honest, I feel people have used this as an excuse to justify keeping bettas in very small tanks and it's just stuck as a result. I do, however, appreciate that a betta that has lived its whole life in a cup/jar and then is suddenly given free roam of a 55 gallon will feel nervous at first but, if you consider it, they are not so far cut from their wild anscestors that they cannot settle down and actualy do better with the larger space than if they are forced to live in a 1 gallon bowl for evermore. People have made it sound like they live in little puddles in the wild - they don't - they have hundreds of gallons of water in the wild! Just think of the expances of (shallow) water. But, for the record so to speak, very fancy betta varieties like super deltas and crowntails can have their fins damaged by the effect of swimming against the current or a lot of 'excersise' in a large tank - so bettas meant for show, for example, would be best off kept in a smaler tank. If you avoid keeping them with nippy fish though, and don't have a strong current, even the fancier types would be fine as community fish. I still agree that a male is not a good idea for your tank though.

Yeah, anyway, Anna, I always say that if you are a pessimist, you don't get dissapointed if you are wrong while if you are an optimist, if you do turn out to be wrong, it can be very annoying . What I mean to say is that you shouldn't be apologizing for being negative!

 

[Annastasia]

First of all, let me clarify. I find Bettas kept in bigger tanks to be slower, and therefore more a target for nippy fish. I have personally kept males in a 30 gal with no problems. They have been with slow, non-nippy fish, though. I have absolutely no problem with giving a male betta a nice big house. They will be much happier. I should have said in my first post what I ment, but I was in a hurry to feed the horses...so I skipped over a bit.

So basically...I ment...they will be slower, because they have more territory to patrol. In the wild, they do not have all that territory for themselves. Also, when they are bred, they are generally kept in smaller tanks or jars, so they will not be used to all that room. They need to build up to it, and during that time, they MAY get tired. I often see my Bettas resting in the tanks. When they are slower, and resting, They will be a target for the nippy fish.

So Sylvia, I think you and I are on the same page, I just said it faster, and left out a little. Post has been edited.

 

[frenchpea2002]

Well, I think I am going to pass on the gourami's, and possibly get rid of my guppies and devote my 10g to a species tank of dwarfs, but that will be later. I am working on building up my tank to a medium planted with just the danios (I'm weak...I just bought 4 more, 2 zebras and then 2 long-finned leopards which are ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!) so now I have 11 of them and I'm going to hold off on anything else until I get back from my 10 day trip in July. I'm not too concerned about overstocking, as I have a penguin 170 and a whisper 10i filter, plus I do a weekly PWC, and there is plenty of swimming room for my small little fish! B)

I just discoved a great lfs that's about 30 minutes from my house, so I have a place to go now. The owner was really nice, and I went in the middle of the say so there wasn't anyone else there so he talked me through some options with fish and plants and everything!

edit: also I impusle bought a beautiful betta, he's got a dark blue body and light blue/red fins and he went into one of my smaller empty tanks!