125 Gallon Africans Dying!

[Soaup]

Ok so first off let me say i wont have water parameters until tonight im at work. This morning i noticed my venustus was not right, she was upside down still alive but swimming most erratic and not in good shape. Her tail fin was red, as was her gills. Her anal vent looked a bit swolen also slightly red. So i removed her to my hospital tank where i treated it with melafix. I found another dead guy in the tank and there are two missing.

Ok so anyways 2 weeks ago i bought 3 new fish, i had them quarantened for a week in another tank with no problems. Well last weekend i added them to the tank, The 2 missing fish were new fish. I dont know what the problem is, Parasite, bacterial infection? Anyone!? I added melafix to the main tank as well as covering the tank and cranking the heat up. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks again and sorry for the lack of information. I will answer any questions i can.

 

[Colin_T]

Rift Lake cichlids are pretty tough fish and the biggest killer of them is aggression and ammonia poisoning. Due to the high PH of the water any ammonia that is produced is going to be very toxic. If a fish dies in the tank then the ammonia levels can go up very quickly and make all the other fish sick as well. If a big fish dies in the tank and isn't removed straight away the ammonia levels can get so high everyone else actually dies too.

I would say the venustus could have been bashed or it could have a bacterial infection. However, the bacterial infection should have shown up slowly over a course of several days. If the fish was fine one day and red and ripped fins on the next day, then it probably got hammered by someone in the tank.
By introducing the new fish you might have upset the balance in the tank and now someone is pee-ed off and is kicking hell out of everyone else in the tank.

If it is a disease then turning up the temperature will probably make the problem worse by allowing the disease organism a chance to develop faster. If the tank temperature was around 24-26C then it should have been fine.

The best thing to do when a fish dies is a partial (30-50%) water change. This helps to dilute any ammonia that has built up and also lowers any disease organisms in the water. Then check to make sure the filter is running correctly and isn't blocked up. Cut back on feeding for a couple of days as sick fish won't eat as much and the excess food will simply pollute the tank making things worse. Then monitor the fish for signs of aggression, or see if any are not eating. Then look for any signs of disease on the healthy fish.

 

[Soaup]

Thanks Colin! Well heres the thing i dont know if its the ammonia, it could be. I did a water change last weekend as i do twice a month. The filters are running fine. Like i said i havent run tests yet being as i had to rush out to work. I will do so ASA i get home. The two missing fish i havent seen now for about 2 days so i will also start lifting rocks to see if they are in there. I am assuming they are dead. I dont know if its a disease but my first guess was a parasite came in with the new fish. I talked to the woman at the pet store she said that they havent had any problems that she knows of but shes not the fish expert. I will run tests tonight and get back to them. Even if the new fish werent sick I just redecorated the tank before they were added so i cant see how they would have gotten bullied right away. One of them was a Juvie Venustus, I also have 1 large Male, and as of about Noon HAD 1 Female. I was unable to sex the Juvie but i was hoping that it was a female. The female had red fins but NOT ripped. She didnt look beat up in anyway, her anal gland looked strange as did the dead guy that i pulled out. Anyways..... Thanks for the advice maybe something i have said will help.

 

[Colin_T]

anal gland = the little area where the poo comes out?
if this area was red and pushed out a bit the fish might have died from an internal bacterial infection. Bacteria sometimes damage an organ and when it ruptures the fish's abdominal cavity fills up with a bacterial soup that can push the intestines out. This can sometimes show up as a bit of white stuff hanging out the fish's butt. If the fish had intestinal worms then they might show up as thin red strands coming out of the fish’s butt.

The fish might have picked up the problem from the new fish or they might have eaten something that had been rotting under the rocks when you were redecorating the tank. The rotten food causing the internal upset.

Red in the tail is often blood running through the veins and can be caused by poor water quality or a bacterial infection.

Did you gravel clean the tank when you were redecorating? If not perhaps do a gravel clean and water change and that might help prevent any more from dieing.

 

[Soaup]

I did a complete change, I did some looking into the ammonia poisoning. Im now almost certain the two new missing fish were probably killed or bullied to death, I didnt catch it and now the ammonia has spike i am having my sister run a test now and i will put up the Ammonia PPM soon.

 

[Soaup]

Ok so the Ammonia is 0-.25 hard to tell but its inbetween. My male Venustus is no laying on his side and is showing the same symptoms, everyone else in the tank appears to be fine. I will take a picture of the female who passed she is VERY red. Please anyone got anything!?

 

[Colin_T]

I would say it was ammonia poisoning. Keep the feeding down for a week and do daily 50% water changes to help dilute any ammonia that might appear. Then just see how they go.
There are a couple of products on the market to help fish overcome stress and they help improve or repair the mucous coating. You could try adding something along those lines, it might help. Otherwise just get the picture posted and see how the fish go over the next few days.

 

[Soaup]

So i lost another Venustus last night. I just did my 2nd water change in two days. The ammonia test is still reading 0. I really have no clue whats going on. I now notice one of my tank raised hybrids has a mix of like pop eye and a fugus on his eye. His eye is clouded over white but it looks like an injury more then a fungus. Although i would think its something other then an injury because several of my fish are acting really weird. Another one of my fish is starting to show the same symptoms as the venustus. Irratic Swimming but no physical symptoms, Im still stuck on this one. Are my fish done for!?

 

[kj23502]

A lot of things can poison water(which is also a possibility at this point). Any aresols that are sprayed in the vicinity of the tank, putting your hand in w/something on it w/out you knowing or realizing.

I think pop eye is mostly from bad water quality. Have you been able to keep up on the wc's?

Have you ran any nitrite or nitrate tests?

Did you do an ammonia test before you did your first water change? That would've given great insight. As we could've seen how much ammonia there was to begin with. How much water did you change before you did the test before it read 0-.25ppm?

I went through a mini cycle w/my 125 awhile ago and had to go through numerous water changes. At 1ppm I think I changed about half the water to bring it down low. At one point I was doing 75% to try to keep the nitrite down when that spiked.

 

[Colin_T]

if the fish scratched its eye on something then it would get a little bit swollen and go cloudy for a few days while it heals.
is there any chance of a pic of the sick or dead fish?
do you use a clean bucket for water changes?

Perhaps treat the tank with something like Waterlife Protozin or Wardley's Promethyasul, or something similar. These medications will treat most things including whitespot, costia and many common bacterial infections.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating otherwise it will absorb the medication out of the water.

 

[Soaup]

I have removed the carbon, like i said i have been treating with melafix. I have also been keeping up with the water changes. The Ammonia test was done before i changed any water. The fish who appeared sick yesterday have not yet died so thats a little promising because the others were dead in hours. I use a python to clean the tank so i dont see it being a clean bucket problem. As well as we usually dont use much Aerosol's in the house, not very much of anything for that matter.

 

[Colin_T]

it looks like a really bad bacterial infection. And it's affecting the fish internally which makes the problem even more difficult to treat. Waterlife Protozin or Wardley's Promethyasul should clear up the external side and if you can get some medicated food (something containing a general antibiotic) then hopefully it should clear the up internal problem.

 

[Soaup]

I will go to my LFS today. Now would you say that the bacterial infection likely came from the new fish or could it be caused by anything?

 

[Colin_T]

It possibly came in with the new fish but it is hard to prove that. Generally rift lake cichlids are kept in hard alkaline water and hard alkaline water does not encourage bacterial infections. As such it is uncommon for a tank of Malawi or Tanganyikan cichlids to develop bacterial infections. It doesn't mean it can't happen but it is just uncommon.
It could also have come from the tank if there was lots of gunk trapped under rocks or the gravel was really dirty. A dirty filter could have caused or it might have even been caused by some bad food. Perhaps some frozen food that had been defrosted and then refrozen, either by you or at the shop or even at the wholesalers.
It might have even been a combination of factors. The fish were a bit stressed for some reason and then new fish were added. These new fish got bashed and died or just died and caused an ammonia spike that stressed the original inhabitants even more. The ammonia might have damaged the fish's mucous coating allowing bacteria and other pathogens to get in and affect them. Then the whole lot just spiralled out fo control.
At this stage the best thing you can do is treat them and keep an eye one them. Try to increase the surface turbulence to maximise the oxygen level in the water. Keep the feeding down and see how they do over the next week.

 

[Soaup]

Ok Sounds good yeah i picked up some medication and some antibacterial food, They hate it but im sure when push comes to shove they will eat it instead of starve. Ok so all the fish in the tank now are currently not showing any symptoms. Those that did have died. I did feed them some frozen brine shrimp last week which i purchased from the same shop. Although i have been feeding it to my venustus fry and they are thriving. So its hard to tell where it came from. I kept one of the venustus to bring into the pet store i bought the other fish at and show them what happend i will see what they say but i would assume now i think ive got everything under control. You have been very helpful. Thanks again!