10 gallon disaster, dying fish

[ars4986]

I have been having alot of issues with my tank. I have a 10 gallon tank and over the last six months I have lost so many fish. I am hoping someone reads this and responds with an answer to my problem or at least an idea I could try. I have tried lots of different things and nothing has helped. The water gets cloudy and then the fish start to die.
I started out with 1 plecostomus and 12 neon tetras. All was well (water became a little more cloudy over next month), I think I might have lost one or two neons. About a month later, I added 2 corydoras, thinking that all I needed was a fish that would eat the food that fell to the bottom and I was hoping that would clear up the water. The water did clear up some and then went cloudy again. Later, when I was down to 1 plecostomus, 8 neons and 2 corydoras, (thinking it was just bad fish), I added three dwarf powder blue gouramies. Two days later, one of the gouramies died. 2 or 3 more weeks passed. Gradually over the next several days, I started loosing a neon a day, then at the end, it went from 1 a day to 3 a day. I only had 2 or 3 left. About a week or so later, I decided (to cut down the number or fish) to take out the plecostomus, about 3 or 4 inches long, and move him to my goldfish tank. I believe I also did about a 1/3 to 1/2 water change, which the water cleared up for a while. About a week later, knowing I need a plecostomus, I bought a little, not even two inches long, plecostomus and 4 more neons (which made 6 or 7 neons, 2 corydoras, 2 powder blue gouramies, and a plecostomus). About a month went by and I hadn't had any problems, I thought I was out of the whole ordeal. Over the next several days the water got cloudy, and I started loosing neons again. The water got real cloudy and I couldn't stand it any longer. I was down to 3 neons, and my abino corydora and my little plecostomus started acting like they were sick and were going to die. Frustrated, I took out all the fish that was left, put them in a bowl, and scrubbed everything and put fresh water in it again. I decided to start with a clean tank again (like when I first got my tank). I even took out all the plastic plants and decorations in the tank. My little plecostomus died before I could get them in to clean water but my albino corydora survived. After a week, the water looked great and I decided to add a few small live plants in the tank. A week later I added 3 more neons, making 6 and another plecostomus. The last 3 neons and this last plecostomus I got at a different place. Yes, all of the other fish were from the same local pet store, that everybody else loves. Anyways... The water looked still great, slightly cloudy. A week later it started clouding up again (it is currently cloudy). It was now about two weeks from today. Then, two days ago, my albino corydora died.
From the local pet store I bought:
16 neon tetras, 3 are left
3 dwarf powder blue gouramies, 2 are left
2 corydoras (1 albino), 1 left
1 medium plecostomus, still alive and kickin it
1 small plecostomus, dead
The other store's fish (1 pleco. and 3 neons) are still alive
Other details: I have a 10 gallon tank, a heater set to 76, and a power water filter (Cascade 80 made by Penn Plax), small live plants, and natural rocks with epoxy coating. I also changed the water as much as once a week, but I didn't mess with it when the water was clear.
I am open to any suggestions. I am so frustrated with this tank. I have several other tanks including 2 10 gallon tanks. This tank is the only one with different types of fish. The 1 10 gallon tank has goldfish and my first plecostomus in it. All the other tanks have bettas in them. Does anybody have any ideas? The only other thing I could do (that I can think of), other than giving up, is to change the rock and I would have to take the fish out for that. Please Help!!!

 

[Torrean]

ummm were to start. I'll edit this in a min just wanted you to know we are working on it.

These are all possible parts of the overall problem

1. do you know what cycling is?
2. do you have any test kits?
3. do you know how big a plecostomus gets?
4. what dort of lighting do you have on this tank?
5. did you know that you don't actually need an algae eater?
6. did you know that you are supposed to do gravel vaccumming to remove excess waste and fish food?
7. did you know that if there is excess food you are probably overfeeding?
8. do you know about the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule?
9. did you know that you should perform a 25% water change twice to four times a month?
10. do you know what dechlorinator is?
11. did you know that some goldfish get huge and need very large tanks.
12. did you know that the larger a tank is the easier it is to keep healthy?


We are not attacking you. I got defensive when I first came on here. We love your fish and want what is best for them. Thank you for trying to fix your problem.

btw welcome to the forums I hope you stick around a while.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Ok...(where to start!), i have a lot of questions im afraid and some concerns;
a. have you ever heard of dechlorinator or cycling tanks?
b. Have you ever tested your tank water for ammonia, nitrates and nitrites and if so, can you post us your recent tank stats?
c. when you clean your tank filter, do you clean it in water from the tank or in tap water straight from the tap and do you clean it sparkling clean?
d. What and how much do you feed your fish on average/how many times a day and to which tank?
e. Do you have gravel or sand in the tank and how often do you clean it and do you use a syphon/gravel to do it?
f. do you know what type your goldfish is and its size(inchs)?
g. What temp are your tanks set at in degrees?

h. do you know what type of plec/plecostomus you have? is it a common or sailfin plec by any chance? click on the link below for pics and info of them;

common plec;

http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/loric...erygop/88_f.php

sailfin plec;

http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/loric...rygop/148_f.php

You need to answer these questions before i can give you any accurate info on your situation
First peices of advice though just at a glance, no NOT buy anymore fish and do a 50% water change in all tanks right now.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Sorry to hear about your problems. As suggested by the questions above, the most likely cause of your disaster is poor water quality, due to overstocking with fish.
The general rule for tropical fishtanks is 1 inch per gallon of slim-bodied fish (like neons or guppies). So that would really only give you room for a school of neons.
Unfortunately, neons can be very sensitive to poor water quality and many people recommend that they should only go in a tank that has been up and running for 6 months or so.
The inch rule does not apply to great waste-producers like plecos, who basically need a bigger tank.
The other thing is that unless you have done a fishless cycle (stimulating the growth of bacteria), you must not add more than a small proportion of hardy fish at the beginning, and then gradually add more. Otherwise, the bacteria will not be able to keep up and your fish will basically be stewing in ammonia produced by their excrements. I reckon that this is what happened to your tank, the sudden introduction of an overload of fish led to an ammonia spike.
If you overfeed, you make the ammonia problem worse as rotting food also produces ammonia.
If the water is not dechlorinated, you will add chlorine and chloramine poisoning to the ammonia poisoning.
If you have got a cycled tank, not overstocked, you will still need to vacuum the gravel and do a partial water change (15-20%) once a week, just as a part of general maintenance.
The appearance of the water is unfortunately no guide at all as to its quality. Even healthy water can look cloudy due to a harmless bacteria bloom, and beautifully clear water can actually be full of deadly poison. The only way to make sure is to buy a water testing kit and test for ammonia and nitrites. Neither should exceed 0.5 ppm; if they do, you need to do water changes to bring the readings down.

Taking out gravel and ornaments and scrubbing them is not a good idea as this will kill off any good bacteria you may have growing there.

Sorry if this all sounds daunting; it gets easier when you get used to it. It is very hard not to overstock as a beginner (I hate to think what my first tank was like). You have to remember that all the pictures in fishkeeping books are arranged for the photograph (a bit like a group photo does not give you an idea of actual population density lol), also that your pet shop has access to superb filtration that you cannot emulate at home. So a healthy tank is going to look rather empty.

The best thing for you to do now is answer Torrean's and Tokis' questions as this will make it much easier to help you.

Also, about that goldfish. Are you aware that they are coldwater fish (should not be in with a plec) and that they need 10 gallons/goldfish as they grow large, produce a lot of waste and have higher oxygen requirements than tropical fish?

 

[Torrean]

I hope she comes back to this website. I sent her an e-mail but it doesn't seem like she's gotten it yet.

 

[wrs]

It was definetly overstocking thaty caused the issue.

 

[ars4986]

First off, I never got any e-mails from you... and secondly my gold fish arn't the problem. For most of the questions you asked the answer is yes. I have flourescent lighting. I tested the water last night and all is in a safe or neutral. I do have hard water though I will not be able to get around that... Nitrate is safe, nitrite is safe, total harness is Hard, Total alkalinity is Ideal and pH is neutral. I clean the filter cartridge with tap water. I feed the fish twice a day. I have gravel with epoxy. The tank is set to around 74-76. I think I have a common plecostomus. I use two kinds of chemicals that the local pet store told me to use. that is supposed to get rid of everything. I have been a 1/3 to 1/2 water change once a week. After saying that I feel quite reduntant because i said atleast half of that in my first post. anyways.... I want to get a bigger tank but, I mom says that I have to get this one under control and know why it doing that before she every even considers getting a bigger tank. Or less someone has a big tank to donate me and is able to get it me I wont be getting a bigger tank anytime soon.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Can you actually post us your all water stats as mentioned before like the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite? what you may see as acceptable may actually have issues thats all and we need to know the stats to rule that posibility out.
What were the symtoms of the fish that died before death or any strange behavior they are showing- do you even know what chemicals you are adding to the tank and what they do and if so, can you tell us the product name?

 

[OohFeeshy]

Well, my main points of concern in your last post are-
-What test kit do you use? If its strips that you dunk in, they are not very reliable at all. Or if its liquid, it could be out of date.
-Cleaning the filter with tap water. Ummm... not good. The chlorine kills all the bacteria that live in it, and its those that make the water safe. Use old tank water.
-Feeding the fish. You only really need to feed once a day, and don't feed for maybe one day a week.
-Chemicals. TBH, most are a load of rubbish. Don't take any reccomendations from lfs's unless its for meds. Or you know they aren't trying to make money from it.

I know the goldfish aren't the problem in hand, but if thats in the same state as this one, you'll probably end up with a lot of dead goldfish too.

 

[mlee0332]

It was definetly overstocking thaty caused the issue.

that's it alright. 12 neons is overstocking and then a plec!! yes that's it alright.

You're over feeding. One time a day is enough for fish. You should also make them fast 1 day per week. This is good for them.

You are overstocked. Each cory is 3" each and you have 3 right? That's nine" of fish there. Plus an 18" plec, and 12-15" of neons. You deffinately need a larger tank or you need to rehome some of your fish.

DON'T use those chemicals anymore. The LFS's don't care about the fish. They care for the green stuff in your pocket. Sometimes, the correct dosage isn't enough to fix the problem, but any more than that will kill your fish. This is another possibility as to why you lost your fish.

As torrean said, we aren't jumping you, we just need to know all of these things before we can help you...

 

[Torrean]

I'm sorry I tried to e-mail you. I guess i still haven't figured out how this thing works. as was said earlier can you please be more specific with your stats, for instance what is a "safe" nitrIte level?

 

[ars4986]

I do use the test strips and that is because the liquid test kits I have seen are expensive. My nitrate is 20, nitrite is 0, Total hardness is Hard (150), Total Alkalinity is about 180 and the pH is about 7.2.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Liquid may be more expensive, but surely its better to spend a bit more than to have all your fish die? All you really need to start with is ammonia and nitrite. And maybe pH. Do you use the Tetra strips? If so, notice it may say 'fast' etc. on the packaging, but nowhere does it say accurate Get your water tested by the lfs for now.

 

[SandMan8388]

Also about the whole water change situation... I believe you said that you do a 1/3 to 1/2 water change. Well being that small of a tank, and then all that sudden water could send your fish into shock and kill them. Try only doing a 1/4 water change.

Also what type of process do you use when you introduce fish to your tank?

And I don't suppose you have a quarantine tank do you?

 

[ars4986]

Ok. I have tried that... My mom doesn't understand why:
When I started this tank, I had 12 neons and one small plecostomus. That was not added all at the same time. Then, after a while, it got cloudy then my fish started dying. When I was down several fish, I added more. I did not add all the fish at one time.
When my mom was a kid, she had aqauriums. 10 gallon tanks with alot more than I have had combined in a tank together. She said she had one plecostomus, 2 catfish, and about 10 big angel fish (in a 10 gallon tank) and the tank was crystal clear and she never had to clean it.
She wants to know how my tank is so different from then, that I can not have any more than 10 inches of fish in a 10 gallon tank. And have this many problems.