Your Advice Please Waterdrop

[CheniseMummy]

Hello

I really need some help to clear up some things with my tank. First of all i have established that prime was giving me false readings for ammonia whic is ok as i know what the base line is. I have still been having up and down readings for nitrite. Which go up after a waterchange and adding my plant fert Tropica nutrition plus.

When i dont use these things my results go down to Ammonia 0 and Nitrite 0 Nitrate 15.

Yesterday i did a test.
12.pm Ammonia 0.3, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 20
12pm 75% water change prime used and TN+
1pm Ammonia 0.6, Nitrite 0.3 Nitrate 40
2pm 50% water change used prime
2.45pm Ammonia 0.1, Nitrite 0.1, Nitrate 15

9pm 90% water change
stress coat used no TN+
10.30PM Ammonia trace, Nitrite trace, Nitrate 5

8/09/10


9am Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitate 15


I have asked another member for some media donation do you think this would help or do you think on my test results i am cycled. two week ago i left tank for two days and got same results. Do you see any connection between possibly the effects of TN+ and prime on my test kit.

 

[ian]

It is quite well known that TPN plus can give you some false negatives. TPN plus contains Ammonium and obviously nitrate. Ammonium is an important source of nitrogen for many plant species, especially those growing on hypoxic soils, as in the aquarium. I can't 100% say yes, but i'm almost positive that it can pick a reading up on a basic test kit.


BTW i'm not Waterdrop, lol

 

[waterdrop]

oh yes, agree with ianho, good comments there -

Its is often an added complication I think when you're getting used to it all that ferts can add things that test kits pick up and yet the things are not harmful to the fish. And likewise, its a similar complication that good conditioners simply convert ammonia to ammonium and that most ammonia tests will simply see these as the same thing.

Thus it becomes important when a tank is still new or when the nitrogen cycle has become unbalanced in an older tank to have more of a feel for the overall situation the cycle is in (or probably in), as opposed to trying to interpret everything from a single set of readings or a small window of readings.

So, from my point of view at the moment, I can't tell whether the problem you're describing is coming from the causes we're discussing (ferts and conditioner) or whether the readings are simply showing that your cycling is ongoing. Part of this may be my fault for trying to advise on too many cycles at once, leading my comments to make the cycler feel as if I'm really remembering the details of their cycle. I do, sometimes, but other times I need to go back and re-read all the logs and what-not. That's the case here, I either need a good summary from you of where you feel your cycling stands in time or a pointer to your main cycling thread perhaps. WD

 

[CheniseMummy]

Ok things were stable untill i started adding prime and TN+. Then things have gone all over the place. I had double 0 for over a week after adding the new fish then started using TN+ daily which sent me looking for prime for help with the nitrite results then i had problems with ammonia results.

My main threads are here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/337683-nitite-spike/page__p__2805541__hl__spike%20cycle__fromsearch__1&#entry2805541

They have been in since 9th august now. Should i continue to make small water changes daily using the stress coat and log the results. Then possibly start to use the TN+ again and see what effects it has?

Or maybe the tank has just cycled as its been a month since adding the extra bio load.

 

[Twinklecaz]

Chenisemummy I'm so glad you made this post coz I have the same thing. When I'm using TPN daily I get slight Nitrite readings and when I don't it's all clear. I actually did an experiment to prove it was this too by stopping using that and only that for a couple of weeks. The only thing that worries me is that it causes real Nitrite to be there and not just fake readings but I guess if that were true then no-one would use it.

I do see why the plant people don't really bother with test kits though coz you never know if it's a real or fake reading anyway. I guess with me I'd just go by whether it shows more than just it's usual trace.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi CM and Caz,
To my mind, this thread is a really good example of why I often comment about master test kits being a "learning tool" for beginners. What I'm often really trying to say is that as you move from beginning in the hobby to intermediate experience to being more experienced I think your view of the various toxins and the use of tests becomes more and more experienced with various complexities.

Its not just the planted tank folks that use their tests less and less, its probably all aquarists. I'm probably somewhat in line with what I hear OM47 saying sometimes. I test much less often than I did when first trying to understand the Nitrogen Cycle in relation to my tank and certainly less than I did during my fishless cycles, but I still use tests a a confirmational tool about various questions I have and I still use my tests as a tool in various experiments. As you gain more experience, you really are able to put together observations of fish behavior, together with a memorized history of your tank, together with a knowledge of the history of your filter and filter media, together with things you learn about other substances like fertilizers to create a more confident understanding for yourself than you had as a beginner.

Personal experiments like Caz reports in her post above are the kinds of things we should all be doing in our tanks and when we share them with each other it just enhances all our experiences together and helps make us better as a group. Doesn't surprise me at all that good ferts can cause some small readings to show from our test kits and its great to get that a little more quantified and expected. Another thing I learned from a number of experienced members posts is to feel pretty confident that ferts don't bother fish - they are usually in a different form than our straight toxins we worry about with respect to cycling. It all fits together: plants and plant nutrition make a tank more complicated but ultimately more healthy, yet of course those things can make the reading and understanding of cycling somewhat more difficult for beginners. And planted tank folks are usually (not always, but usually) quite a bit more experienced in the hobby overall, so have had more experience fitting the puzzle all together.. it just fits.

CM's situation is not one we'd be able to diagnose all that accurately over the internet I don't think, since it implies a subtle possibility of readings at the end of a fish-in cycle and readings caused by the TPN+ (always makes me nervous when people use the different abbreviations differently since Tropica has several products with very similar names (isn't there a TPN that's different from the TPN+?, lol) I'm certainly inclined to think the tank has been getting stable with respect to its fish-in cycle since its at the one month point and the traces of NO2 are just the little reading from the TPN+ and are harmless. I consider quality plant nutrition products, dosed carefully and within the practices of our members here, to be quite safe for fish, despite any blips they may give on our test kits.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[CheniseMummy]

Well i think i can sigh a relief as all traces are now gone from my test kits. Do i still do the water changes now or do i test daily?

Thanks

 

[toshapetriji]

I would test a couple of times a day and water change as necessary. Hopefully things will settle now.

 

[OldMan47]

Just test your water unless you see something like ammonia or nitrites show up. If you get double zeros for a week, you can consider the tank's filter cycled.