Help - Constipated Gourami

[oneponygirl]

This morning my dwarf gourmai has whitish poo stringing from him. I'm thinking he's constipated, right? However, I don't have any peas to feed him (as I understand that's the best treatment) so is there anything else I can try? If there is, how long to I do it and should I continue to feed him his regular food too?

Does constipation mean I'm feeding too much or can it have other causes?

 

[sylvia]

Does the fish actualy look bloated or been having trouble swimming? Has he been eating well lately? These are often signs of constipation.

White, stringy poo is actualy a sign of internal parasites and you should treat accordingly with an anti-internal parasite med asap. Adding a little salt to the water (if there are no salt-intolerant tankmates that is) may also help. You might want to isolate the fish in as stress-free an environment as possible to treat. This both reduces the chance of spreading and also helps treat only the affected fish. Look out, BTW, fr signs that tankmates have also contracted the parasite. If they have, you may as well treat everyone.

If you were treating constipation, you would want to fast the fish first for a day, sometimes longer, and then feed either shelled peas or something like frozen/live daphnia that helps to clear out the system. Other plant foods -even lettuce if you can get the fish to eat it also help but realy, you would want green peas after a couple of days fasting in a severe case. Usualy, just the fasting period is enough to solve the problem.

Constipation and bloating can be caused both by over-feeding or by feeding too much at once (several small portions spread out is better) or by feeding too much of a very dry or just simply the wrong food. If you regularly give your fish natural supplements such as live worms and brine shrimp or the frozen equivalents and also give them green foods (especialy for gouramies which usualy benefit as they are omnivorous), you should not end up with bloated fish. A diet of only flake and pellets is ok but can take its tole on the digestive system and result in such problems such as bloating and even swim bladder issues.

 

[oneponygirl]

Thanks so much for the info. He does appear pretty bloated this morning. He is eating heartily, this fish always acts like he's never had a meal before when he eats, and he's swimming just fine.

I have three neon tetras and a little crab in with him, can they tolerate salt? What should I get to treat parasites? The only other container I would have to put him in would be a one gallon bowl. Would that be sufficient as a temporary hospital tank? Now that I think about it I guess have a 5 gallon tank not set up but would it be a shock for him to be put in that with brand new water and all???

I am currently feeding tropical fish flakes twice daily and replacing a meal with frozen (thawed) brine shrimp once weekly. I've only just gotten him so I haven't discovered any vegies that he might like. What would be safe to try giving him since I'm assuming the tetras will probably nibble at whatever I'm giving him also? Also, should I try feeding three times daily? And should I increase the frequency that they get shrimp? (I was stupid and set up this tank only a couple weeks ago with three species I'd never owned before so I have lots of questions.)

I can get a treatment for the parasites later if you can tell me what to purchase. And I am visiting my sister later and her family doesn't loathe peas like mine does so I suppose I can see if I can bum a few peas off of her.

 

[sylvia]

I'm not sure about the crab but neons don't much like salt in their water though they can tolerate a little of it. It's probably best to avoid adding any though if they are in.

About the crab, BTW, I'm not sure it is compatible with your fish - especialy not very small ones like neons - just maybe something you may want to research before you have any casualties. You could ask in the inverts section of the forum.

This one gallon you mentioned - I'm assuming it is up and running but there must be fish already in it (since you say you are worried about the 5 gallon being newly set up but not about the 1 gallon). In your signature you say you have a betta - is that in the one gallon? If it is, don't put the gourami in with it. They are not compatible and it would be over-crowded. Otherwise, the one gallon would work temporarily but, if it isn't already cycled, you might as well use the 5 gallon as it will be more stable and will need fewer water changes. Using the 5 gallon would work but you'd need to do daily water changes. Make sure the isolation tank has a heater or is kept at a constant temperature and do water changes after every feeding or at least daily. Don't use it if you think you wont be able to keep up with water changes or that it would be too stressful. You are better off treating the whole tank if isolation is going to be even more harmful. Oh but watch out as I don't know how tolerant the crab would be of medications (maybe move the crab to the 5 gallon?)...

Because you say he looks bloated, it may turn out to just be constipation after all and seeing as you say you'll get some peas, you may not even need to treat for parasites. But if there is no improvement after feeding peas only for a couple of days, start him on an anti-internal parasite med. You should be able to get one from your LFS. I can't give specific brand names but it should quite clearly say that it is for this purpose. Just make sure you get one for INTERNAL PARASITES - not ich, velvet or whatever which are external.

I just noticed that the tank is very new. That might be a problem. Have you cycled the tank? Test for ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte. You should do water changes until ammonia is at 0 and, prefferably, until nitrIte is also down to 0. Of course you may already have other tanks set up or something and 'cloned' one but I don't know.

Neons can eat pretty much anything you give to the gourami. I don't know about the crab but it should also be fine. I would increase the amount of shrimp you give and maybe get some blood worms, pellet foods and give the occasional bit of zuchinni or peas as a supplement as well.

BTW, he is still producing stringy white poo right?

 

[oneponygirl]

Thanks again for so much information! I ended up leaving my sister's last night without peas, my dh and I rescued a dog last night from one of my sis's neighbors I think it kind of took my mind off the whole pea need. I'll get some today. I haven't checked today but yesterday before I left fo my sis's he was still producing white poo. They are all still looking alert and healthy, I'll take a water sample with me to church and have it tested afterwards (assuming that leaving it sit for so long won't affect the results, let me know if I'm wrong there) just to make sure it's OK. My last water change (20%) was on Thursday.

Would it be feasible to use a portion of the water from my existing tank to set up the one gallon (it's not set up either but I guess I was thinking that it would be less of a shock for him to be in a new one gallon than a new five gallon, silly I guess)? That way I can fast him and "pea" him without having to fast the rest of the fish and not worry about "shocking" him with new water. I can do daily water changes but it won't have a heater. The best I can do is put it in a warm place with no drafts.

My betta is in a separate two gallon tank all by himself. The crab is so little and doesn't even seem to realize the other fishes are there. He also lost his big claw somehow so he only has his little one left. I haven't set up my five gallon yet because 1) I have no where to put it yet and 2) I haven't decided what I want to put in it yet. So the crab may end up in there after I have figured all that out.

Thanks again for all the info and time it takes to respond! I appreciate it so much and so do my fish.

 

[sylvia]

Hi again

I'll try to answer your questions then (plus a few of my own comments ):

Leaving the water for a while should not affect any of the parameters except possibly pH so that should be fine to test it (pH isn't important in this instance - just ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte).

The 5 gallon would be less of a shock than the 1 gallon - not the other way around. The reason is just that the 5 gallon holds a larger volume which means toxins are more diluted and also that it holds a more steady temperature as it takes longer to lose heat. There is also more swimming space and a larger surface area which means more oxygen can get into the water. Though, as gouramies breathe directly from the air this is less important, it still helps reduce stress.

As you won't be able to keep the temperature in the isolation tank steady, it will be very stressful for the gourami. You are better off just leaving it in the main tank and just feed peas for the next few days. Forget about the fast if you are uncomfortable doing that - just make sure the amount you are feeding (only peas - all the fish can eat them) is small and feed just a tiny bit of crushed, de-shelled pea just once a day.

Adding water to the one gallon, BTW, wouldn't help at all. The good bacteria that are responsible for changing deadly ammonia to nitrIte and then to nitrAte are in the gravel/substrate and in your filter's media. Also, the bacteria need oxygen to live so a small tank without any surface aggitation and containing a fish will take a very long time to build up a large enough colony to sustain the fish.

Lastly, even if you did a water change just on thursday, if your tank isn't yet cycled (and obviously you need to test your water to see), your fish are literaly swimming in poison so I would do another large (50%) water change again until you are sure of the parameters and that it is safe.

The crab's claw should grow back.

I hope the dog you rescued is doing well. Good to hear someone cares and took the time to help a mistreated animal.

 

[oneponygirl]

I'm getting my 5 gallon tank set up tonight and watching the gourami in the meantime. He is still happy as a clam despite not getting breakfast. I'm going to ask my neighbors for some peas, they look like pea eating people. Thanks for the explanation as to one v. 5 gallon tank and which would be best.

My three gallon tank was set up with used gravel and plants from my previous fish (cleaned of course) and running for a few weeks before I added fish. From what I had read before it should have been safe to add fish but maybe that source was wrong. Can you recommend a good book for such things? I find that getting honest, true information is rather hit or miss and I hate that.

The little dog, BTW, is happier already. He is an elderly Cocker mix that hasn't seen clippers in ages so he is a walking matt of hair. I cut his nails today, they were grown all the way around in circles, two had pierced the pads of his feet, one of those is infected. He doesn't look nearly so arthritec now that he's not walking on his own toenails. Last night when we picked him up he was coughing and his color was extremely pale, I was worried about cancer or heart problems. Today after two good meals, tons of fresh water, investigating our acre (he was previously confined to a 4x5 garbage pit) and playing with our other dog, he's bright, happy, prancing around, and his gums are a nice healthy pink.

Anyway, back to the fish. I do so appreciate all your help. I hope to report soon that the peas, once we find some, have be effective. Here's to constipation, this too shall pass!

 

[sylvia]

Good to hear about the dog. Poor thing. How can people do that to an animal?

I'm sorry if I misunderstood but is the tank you have the crab, gourami and neons in a 3 gallon? This isn't realy big enough so, as soon as you've set up the 5 gallon, move them all into that. Move all the gravel from the current tank into it, along with the heater and whatever filter you are using on the 3 gallon. If the 5 gallon has a filter of its own, run both. In about 2 weeks, take off the filter from the 3 gallon and just leave the 5 gallon's filter running (on the 5 gallon). This will ensure all the good bacteria from your currently set-up tank have had a chance to establish themselves in the 5 gallon.

About setting up the tank with gravel etc. Yes, that does work in the sense that it introduces the good bacteria and enables them to colonise the new tank. However, with no fish in the tank, there is no ammonia. Ammonia is the good bacteria's food. Basically, unless you were adding pure ammonia or fish food (when there were no fish in just after you put in the old gravel), the bacteria would have starved. So they wouldn't be doing their job once you added fish. Depending on how long you left them without food, it could take some time for the colony to build up enough again to sustain all the fish you have in this tank. The fact that it is tiny, also, means the waste accumulates much quicker as well. Also, if you cleaned the gravel/plants with tap water, most of the bacteria would have been killed by the chlorine in the water - so that puts an end to that plan.

Sorry I can't do much for you as far as reccomeding a book. I've read many but, to be honest, no single book contains all the information you need in enough detail. Most books cover cycling etc in some form but only a few realy delve deep into it and, even then, things are missed out. The best advice I can give as far as this is concerned is to use many sources. Read as many books as you can on this and other aspects of fish-keeping, search the internet, use this forum and ask questions - no matter how silly you may think they are, they may turn out to be a fish-saver. In time, your accumulated knowledge and your own experiences will mean you are aware of the basics (though you already are aware of most of it as far as I can see) but you'll find you can still never do quite enough research on anything in this hobby. You realy do learn something new every day .

Good luck with everything and good luck to the dog too. Keep us updated.

 

[oneponygirl]

OK, the five gallon is now set up with the gourami and friends. I had figured the three gallon was at the cusp of being overstocked but if I kept it up really well they would be fine. At that time also I wasn't going to set up my five gallon because I had no where to put it. But I have the bug again. It started about a month ago with the little two gallon and getting my son's betta (which I have the privilege of caring for because he is only 15 months old). Then, oh gee, let's set up the three gallon Eclipse again, it will look so nice on our mantel and we can see it all the time (that led to the purchase of the gourami and tetras). Well, guess what, lo and behold now I have found a place for the five gallon. There turned out to be the perfect spot on my computer desk right here in the office.

Now the three gallon will become home to the betta I bought today. We were at the LPS getting supplies for the rescue and, you know, all I was going to do was ask the fish department if they special ordered different varities of bettas because all I ever see there is veil tails and, oh my gosh, there is the MOST gorgeous and spunky crown tail sitting on the shelf just waiting for me. I know, I'm so bad. Bad, Julie, bad, bad! Currently, he is living in the hugest glass mixing bowl I could find in my kitchen and will be fine there until I have the three gallon all set for him. I suppose if the peas don't work (oh, yeah, did I mention the neighbors didn't have peas so the whole fam-damily just packed up and went to the store just for peas) once that mixing bowl is free, I can use it for a hospital tank for the gourami.

AaaaAnd, I'm on a well so I don't have chlorine in my water but that makes me wonder if there are any special considerations I should know about about well water???

 

[sylvia]

lol - MTS (multiple tank syndrome ) seems to have caught up to you. Unfortunately, it is untreatable...

The only problem you might have with well water is excessive nitrAtes already in the water. Test your tap water for all parameters. Normaly, you should have 0 nitrItes, nitrAtes and ammonia. If you have high nitrAtes (over about 10), you may have problems in future. The only real solution would be to have lots of live, fast-growing plants in your tanks to use up these excessive nutrients. Though low levels of nitrAte (below 40) are ok for most fish, a high reading would mean you need to do more frequent water changes to keep it low and it does encourage algae growth as well.

 

[oneponygirl]

My gourami seems to be doing well. He didn't much like the peas, kept eating them and then spitting them out again but this morning all but a few pieces were gone. I did see the crab with one piece but didn't see the tetras eat any so maybe the gourami ate more than I thought. He is quite happy in his new home although the tetras seem a bit shocky. They just hang out in a little bunch in the back of the tank. I'm hoping they'll get over it in a day or two. Today I bought a couple more (fake) plants to help them feel a little more protected as the only ones I had before were for the smaller tank, they don't quite "go" with this one. I found a rock formation decoration that I want to get for them too but that and a home test kit will have to wait on another pay check or two.

I started clipping the rescue today. I have to use scissors so it is very slow going. He is going to be about 1/4 of the dog once I have all that hair and matts off him. By the time he needs to be clipped again I should have a new blade for my clippers so I can give him pretty little cocker cuts after this butch job. He is absolutely the happiest sweetest little guy. He laid still on his side while I scissored him and when I let him up (I only got a quarter of him done today) he just danced all over. So cute!

 

[sylvia]

Oh that's all good news then.

You do still need to test the water though and I think a few water changes should solve the tetras' problem as I suspect the problem is the tank going through a mini-cycle or the end of your original cycle. If you test the water and have high ammonia/nitrItes, you need to do water changes every couple of days to keep the fish alive. Maybe ask for some old filter media right out of one of the tanks at your LFS, this will solve the problem instantly. Make sure the tank is a healthy one and don't expose the filter media to the air or dry conditions for too long or the good bacteria will die. Alternatively, you can get some gravel (from inside a healthy tank) from your LFS - the same applies when it comes to air/dry conditions. Put the media or gravel in your filter/tank as soon as you get it home.

The dog sounds adorable . Are you going to keep it? I hope you do, it sounds like you are giving it a great home.