Do Gourami's Mind Strong Currents And Travelling?

[noodles]

Since fitting a spray bar (underwater) to my tank, the currents in it are now quite strong. Is this going to upset gourami's?

Also are honey gourami's bad travellers? On 3 trips home from different local fish shops with 5 fish I currently only have 1 that has not curled up and died either in the bag or within a day after introduction.

I realise it could be my tank, (looking into this in particular the parameters and the spray bar question) but the deaths/illness seem to be pretty sudden upon introduction (and before) hence maybe stress?

Any thoughts?

 

[karlp]

It depends on how 'strong' the current is.

Gouramis' on the whole don't like strong curents. They're best adapted to slow moving water in a planted setup.

With regard deaths. How long are they in the bag ? If they're dieing in the bag before you introduce them, then there's something seriously wrong at the LFS's end unless you're leaving them in the bag for an excessively long time or are letting the bag get very chilled.

With regard dieing after being introduced, check your water parameters Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate. It could just be a bad batch of honey gouramis, but if your tank is new it's much more likely they're dieing of Ammonia / Nitrite poisoning.

 

[noodles]

Half hour in the bag tops in a warm car, so dont think they are getting cold. I tried 2 lfs (just in case it was a bad batch), both are having the same results (although its likely they were from the same suppliers)

Tank has been set up for a good few months with no other deaths to other fish. Testing the water tonight to make completely sure.

The current is from a fluval 1+ with spray bar facing horizontally along the surface in a fluval 500 tank (10uk gallons). Its not extreme current, as they can certainly manage it and there are plenty of real plants to break it up and for them to hide in, I am just not sure what is unsettling them! its such a shame as they are so lovely and really will finish of the tank.

Will let you know what the parameters say tonight. lets hope they are still alive and can make a recovery.

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

The tank is too small for them. Dwarf gourami are very sensetive to all water params in any tank and I suspect they're dieing more due to the stress of the move from the lfs. It's possible they've not been there very long since arriving there and are already under stressed and improperly fed. I wouldn't put any in a 10g tank anyway. Even dwarf gourami need a bigger tank then that.
Hugs,
P.

 

[pokagon55]

The rule is 1 inch of fish for every gal. of water. Sounds like to many fish in that tiny tank.

 

[noodles]

I think I know the rules, 1 inch of fish per us gallon right? I am talking 10 uk gallons = 12 Us gallons

ember tetra's (tiny fish, make neons look massive!) = 1/2 inch max * 6 =3 inch.
otto's = 5 * 1 inch = 5 inch
Honeys (not the bigger dwarf gourami's) = 3 * 1.5 inch = 4.5 inch
Rockets (again small, long fish) = 3 * 1/2 inch = 1.5 inch

Total = 14 inch

Ok, so its slightly over, but not by much, should be perfectly fine with good filtration and water changes. I chose these unusual fish because of their sizes and characteristics and the suitability for my tank. Maybe its a risk, but if I show some pictures some time (if and when the tank recovers) then hopefully you will see that its not crowded at all and a very nice different set up.

Got half the water tests done, Ammonia = 0, pH = 8. Unfortunately the kit I bought had a couple of bottles missing for nitrites and nitrates, so taken it back to the shop so will test them tonight. Is the pH way too high and would it cause this? I guess ideally it should be acidic so did another water change last night just in case the nitrites are too high as well.

Cheers!

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

The adult size of honey gouramies is 2 inches. So that makes 3 = 6inches.
Ember tetras grow to just under an inch each as adults. 6 = 4.5inches.
Ottos can grow to 1.5 inches as adults. 5 = 7.5 inches.
Not come across Rockets before and the only ones I know of are the rocket panchax which is a type of killifish. They get to 2 inches as adults.
Even using your estimate for the last one as 1.5 inch alongside the others you're looking at a total of 19.5 inches of fish! It's far too much.
I have a good idea of what a 10 gallon looks like since I have a great many betta tanks ranging from 3-8 gallons. As adults they will be far too crowded and the water params will suffer. Dwarf or honey gouramies are fragile and will become stressed very easily, leaving themselves open to disease.
Hugs,
P.

 

[noodles]

The adult size of honey gouramies is 2 inches. So that makes 3 = 6inches.
Ember tetras grow to just under an inch each as adults. 6 = 4.5inches.
Ottos can grow to 1.5 inches as adults. 5 = 7.5 inches.
Not come across Rockets before and the only ones I know of are the rocket panchax which is a type of killifish. They get to 2 inches as adults.
Even using your estimate for the last one as 1.5 inch alongside the others you're looking at a total of 19.5 inches of fish! It's far too much.
I have a good idea of what a 10 gallon looks like since I have a great many betta tanks ranging from 3-8 gallons. As adults they will be far too crowded and the water params will suffer. Dwarf or honey gouramies are fragile and will become stressed very easily, leaving themselves open to disease.
Hugs,
P.

hmm really? might have to re-think that one a bit then? Seems the measurements I have found in books/lfs state the sizes as smaller than in real life...

Water params back in out of interest.

pH=8
Ammonia =0
Nitirites=<0.1
Nitrates = 50-110

So apart from pH and highish nitrates seem ok. Certainly not bad enough I would have thought to have the effect that it has. I can only think that some sort of poison got into the water.

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

That is possible. Has anyone use cleaning products or aerosols near the tank recently? The water params sound fine and ph being that high is not a problem if the fish are used to it/were introduced to it correctly.
Your nitrAtres are somewhat high and that can cause problems. You need to try and get them down somewhat. What are they when they come direct from the tap? Some ppl have nitrAte in their normal water and obviously you can't do much about that.
Having plenty of live plants in the tank will lower nitrAte levels considerably once they're established but until then I'd recommend small water changes to bring them down.
You'd be suprised how big some fish can reach depite what we are told by stores and some books. I'd been told and had read that my gouramies would reach around 4 inches yet currently they're around 5+. As it is they can reach up to 6inches in size. So saying they're only about a year old now so anything is possible!
Most fish continue to grow in size throughout their entire lives so a fish with a long life can get very big! Some grow a great deal slower then others obviously and never reach much of a size at all.
Because of the potential for aggression with gouramies it usually best to give them more room rather then less and dwarfs and honeys are so sensetive nowadays, due to too much inbreeding, that a tip on the scale the wrong way can end up disasterous.
In the end it's the fishes health and well being that we all need to try and think about. I know what it feels like to look at a tank and see....well nothing! My 100g can look like that when they all decide to go hide. It literally looks empty. But I know the Malawis can get to rather a big size and adding more would eventually cause a sardine effect and unhappy, sick and dead fish. Added to that that they're breeding!
Alternatively you could suffer a touch of mts and get a larger tank in for them all.
Hugs,
P.

 

[JamesMac]

Get a bigger tank. You have all the basics, and certainly the interest. Why cram a tank to the limit. I think 1.5 to 2 inches/gallon is better asthetically and biologically. Also, a tank this small is often inherently unstable.

jgm

 

[noodles]

Thanks all for the info, its a great help! I have had larger tanks in the past, but this was all I could persuade the lady of the house that we could have now! (my previous purchase of a 5footer was marched out the door before it hit the ground...) But I will work on it!

Regarding the nitrates, I am suprised as I do have some extensive plant growth in there (which I do have to keep cutting back weekly to avoid clogging the tank) but maybe its just too much for the plants to deal with. I do have a couple of space filling plastic plants, will probably replace them with the real versions.

But the good news is the fish are definitely getting back to health, only lost one of the rocket panchax, one of the gourami's is absolutely perfect now, while the other 2 are still a bit shaky on their fins but i think should make a full recovery.

Will continue with water changes and leave the charcoal in there for a bit longer. Might be worth checking the tap water for nitrates too.

Aside from that in the long term I am just going to have to keep the tank in tip top condition and see how it goes. I do certainly have the interest and I am not one of those many people who like to stuff a tank full of fish, look at it for a couple of weeks and then lose interest and neglect it and its inhabitants! If it means my current stocking results in having to spend a lot of time with the tank, then so be it!

 

[walker001]

Hi, if you have a fluval, you can adjust the intensity of the output or change direction of it. My dwarf doesnt like strong current, but he has his own zone he staked out and a cave so he is happy.
Another thing about this 1" rule. I think it's quoted and regarded to highly. I personall don't count the tail in the equation. Examples are guppies, bettas, swords. Do you measure body or body and tail, or in the bettas case the plumage. Also, what zones do the fish swim in? A 30 gallon tank with 30 inches of bottom dwellers would be crowded, when stocking, consider the fishes zone in the tank they prefer. Top, middle, or bottom? A nice mix of compatable fish in differing zones in a planted tank, using body only measurements, you find you can toss the old rigid 1" per gallon rule out as seriously flawed.

Also. if you are honest with yourself, no matter what you want in your tank, you can look at it and tell if its fully stocked or not. Toss all the rules aside, you know the situation. You can look at it and tell. If all you have is swarms of various tetra all swiming amongst themselves in the mid zone, yeah, thats not good.

Just my 2 cents.

Walker

 

[noodles]

Final Update:

Everything is now great! The gourami's that I had given up for dead, (ie: on their sides on the bottom of the tank breathing heavily!) are now completely healthy and loving the tank!

It was a stressful couple of days of water changes and water testing, but I am soooo pleased they are well! I think this is probably one of the only times I have ever managed to save fish that were in so much trouble. And I have to say, it gives me more of a buzz now when I look at them.

Whoever says fish are so cheap you might as well just replace them rather than treating them, is missing the point big time!