What Kind Of Lighting..suggestion Please

[julielynn47]

I hope this is the right place for this post. )
 
I need to get new lights for my tank. I have had these lights for a few years now, but they are getting weak, I can tell.  I ordered some Aqueon Colormax Color Enhancing 15 watt T8 tubes.  I have a 55 gallon and needed 2 of them.  The problem is they give off less light than the Aqua Rays that I had. However, I can't seem to find and Aqua Rays.  
 
My tank looks like it is nightfall in the amazon. The water looks murky, but it is not the water, it is the lights.  However...If I put the old lights back in that is no good either as they don't look better due to age.  
 
I am starting to think that the lights themselves are not the problem, and that the problem might be the light hood itself going out.   Has anyone else ever had this problem?  I don't think my plants are going to do much thriving with no more light than this.  
 
Can anyone suggest good bulbs, that the cost of does not break the bank?  
 
I am actually thinking about just buying a glass top for it and all new lighting. I was thinking LED, but I read that LED is not really plant friendly.  Now, I don't have high maintenance plants, but what I have have always done well with Aqua Rays that I had before.  
 
Any and all suggestions will be appreciated!!
 
Thanks in advance! 

 

[Ninjouzata]

What kind of plants do you have? Knowing that might help someone suggest the right lighting for you If you don't know you can always post pics and someone should be able to ID them for you.

 

[StevenF]

Look at your old bulbs is there a lumen rating printed on the glass.   Is there also a kelvin rating? That would tell you how bright the bulbs were and there color  when new and then you can compare that to the specs on the label of a new bulbs.  Another spec that is harder to find is CRI or color rendoring index.  You want this value to be as high as possible.  Preferably 90.  

 

[StevenF]

 
 
 I was thinking LED, but I read that LED is not really plant friendly.

LED work well for plants if you get a good one.  However there are a lot of cheep imports on the store shelves   Cheep bulb might put out less light (lumens) than claimed and might have a very low CRI, and the color temperature may not be exactly as claimed.  If you know the lumen output, kelvin rating, and CRI you can get a LED that will work as well as Fluorescent bulbs.  Bulbs made by major manufactures (Philips, Cree, Sylvania, Fiet electric) often live up to the specifications listed on the package.I am using LEDs right now in my nano tank.  Plant growth is good.

 

[julielynn47]

Thanks to all of you for replying.   All it says on the old bulb is as follows.  
 
AQUA RAYS, Fresh and Saltwater, F15T8-AR-FS  Made in HUNGARY
 
And the company is GE
 
Nothing else.  They worked well to display the color of the fish and my plants did well for years.  But then the plants started to die and this black and brown algae started to grow.  The algae killed pretty much all the plants. It coated them and no amount of water changes or scraping seemed to help.   I have one plant that I do not know the name of in the tank that survived the onslaught of this algae.  I also have 2 amazon swords that survived but died back and very small now.    The reason I bring up the algae is because I read that it can be caused by older bulbs. Which is why I bought the new bulbs in the first place.
 
Right now I have the plant that I don't know what is, the 2 amazon swords, some floating hornwort and some ludwigia.   The ludwigia is dying off and I don't know why, but I suspect it is the lighting.
 
Can anyone give me any suggestions on light tubes to buy? I mean, just post a link to some that are good?  Even the new ones that I bought last week don't have any of the things written on them or on the box that you all have mentioned.
 
On the upside, the black and brown algae finely died off. So that is not an issue anymore and I hope it never is again

 

[julielynn47]

For example , what do yall think of these bulbs? Are they a good choice or a bad choice? I am really not very up on lights as you can tell.
 
http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12763
 
* 18000°K color enhancing bulbs
* Brings out blue, red, and orange pigments

18000°K bulbs enhance blue, red, and orange pigments to bring out the full beauty of your aquarium inhabitants. The Aqua-GLO T8 linear fluorescent aquarium bulb generates an ideal fish colour-enhancing spectrum and delivers a strong photosynthetic range of light very capable of stimulating vigorous plant growth. This normal output bulb has a colour temperature of 18000K and fits all suitable standard and electronic ballasts. It is an excellent bulb to combine with Power-GLOand/or Life-GLO bulbs in most planted aquariums. Promotes healthy plant growth. Ideal for freshwater and planted aquariums.
 
 
 
 
The below lights are what I bought to replace the old ones.  As you can see it shows nothing about which you all spoke of as far as Kelvin ratings go.
 
http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=23783&prodid=48422&catid=3
 



*

Color enhancing T8 fluorescent bulb for tropical fish aquariums



*

T8 lamp for use with most fluorescent aquarium light fixtures



*

Warm light highlights beauty of aquarium fish and live plants

Highlight the stunning natural colors in your tropical aquarium. Colormax Color Enhancing Fluorescent Lamp brings out the natural color of tropical fish and live plants for a gorgeous aquarium display. Color enhancing T8 (1" diameter) lamp casts a warm glow, making it a great choice for freshwater aquariums. Aqueon Colormax Color Enhancing Fluorescent Lamp can be used in most fluorescent aquarium light fixtures.

 

[Byron]

I have years of experience with T8 fluorescent tubes (which is what you seem to have now).  First thing is to ascertain what your fixture holds.  This is a 55g tank...is it a 4-foot length, or other?  And I assume it takes two T8 tubes...what length are the present tubes?  You mentioned 15w in one post, which would be 18 inch tubes which doesn't seem likely over this large a tank, so we need to sort this out.
 
Second, what sort of planted tank?  A photo would answer this best, as I am wondering about the plant species and numbers.  Plants have different light requirements, and presumably what you have been using has worked up to now.  And yes, tubes do weaken a lot as they age; T8 should be replaced every 12-15 months, preferably 12.
 
As for the linked tubes, those are weak compared to others in the same line, like the Life-Glo which is about the best there is.  But I can go into this more whan I know the afore-mentioned data.
 
Byron.

 

[julielynn47]

I have a 55 gallon tank, 48 inches long . It has 2 light fixtures that hold 18 inch tubes.   It seems that every 18 inch tube I find says it is 15w.  I will try to post a picture later today. I am going to have to upload to my website and then link to that I assume.  When I click the picture icon it wants a url. So I will do that in just a little while.  And yes, the Aqua Rays worked really well for me for years. But all good things come to an end and they have reached theirs.  The local fish store that I got them at say they can't get them anymore. They also told me that other customers had gotten Aqua Rays at Wal Mart but that they were not any good anymore. So from that point, I just didn't know what to buy.

 

[Byron]

I have a 55 gallon tank, 48 inches long . It has 2 light fixtures that hold 18 inch tubes.   It seems that every 18 inch tube I find says it is 15w.  I will try to post a picture later today. I am going to have to upload to my website and then link to that I assume.  When I click the picture icon it wants a url. So I will do that in just a little while.  And yes, the Aqua Rays worked really well for me for years. But all good things come to an end and they have reached theirs.  The local fish store that I got them at say they can't get them anymore. They also told me that other customers had gotten Aqua Rays at Wal Mart but that they were not any good anymore. So from that point, I just didn't know what to buy.

 
Two 18-inch T8 tubes over a 4-foot 55g is very low light, but since you have been successful for several years, and depending upon the plants (the photo will tell me this), it should be workable.
 
T8 tubes come in basic wattages for the length of tube, so 18-inch are 15w, 24-inch will be 20w (sometimes 17), and so forth.  However, the intensity of the light depends upon how the tube is constructed, meaning the phosphors and such.  In the Hagen "Glo" series for example (the Aqua-Glo was linked previously) the Aqua-Glo is roughly half the intensity of the Life-Glo, in the same wattage/length tube.  And the Life-Glo is a far superior light.  At this stage in this discussion, I would suggest two Life-Glo tubes--though I still want to see the tank photo.  I am not familiar with the old tubes you had (that are no longer available), and it is always possible that they were more intense than anything now available.  But once I see the plants I should be able to pin this down.
 
If it comes to needing a new light, it is not difficult to use the present housing and simply remove the light apparatus and replace it with a new shop fixture.  I've had to do this on four fixtures myself, because the old ballasts gave out.  Finding T8 lighting today is not at all easy.  But it is ideal lighting for low-tech planted tanks.
 
As for uploading photos here.  I have my digital photos on my computer, and using the "More Rely Options" button at the bottom of a post, you come to a screen that allows you to download the image file from your PC.
 
Byron.

 

[julielynn47]

Okay, here is a pic of the tank.  As you can see my amazon swords are very small now and they used to be very large. But at least they survived the algae onslaught.  All the ludwgia that you see is almost all gone now.  The ludwigia in the center is about half that amount now and the bush of it in the  far right corner of the tank is just gone.  It just fell about, completely, yesterday when I did  a water change.   The plant in the far left corner is the one that made it through the algae issue intact, and I don't know what it is.

Here is a better picture of the far left corner and the plant I do not know the species of.

This is what the amazon swords used to look like in the last picture posted.  And the one in the far left corner in the other picture is the one from the group of 3 on the other side of the tank in same picture.  My tank is so different now.
 
I took a lot of decorations out because they were covered in the brown and black algae. I was kind of at my wits end.   And thanks for the help on the posting the pictures!

Oh, my fish never suffered any ill effects. The water perimeters stayed good. The cories even laid eggs, many times over.  It was unpleasing to the plants and my eyes, but the fish didn't seem to care one way or the other and they don't care about the lights either. But they love the plants and I want them to have the real plants, not the fake ones. I have had both and the fish really like the live plants best.

 

[Byron]

From your photos and text, I would tend to think the old lights were considerably more intense than any I have seen (in 18-inch T8 tube).  You have stem plants which by their very nature are fast growing, meaning more light requirement, and if they have lasted several years the light must have been sufficient even if it no longer is.  BTW, I think the tallish plant on the left could be either a Hygrophyla corymbosa or the very similar Gymnocoronis spilanthoides, though I won't insist upon it if someone has another suggestion.
 
So, to the solution.  You could get two Life-Glo tubes; I know of no stronger light in a T8 tube and I use these over my single-tube or dual-tube smaller tanks that all take 24-inch tubes [I know your tubes are 18-inch].  This is going to be very minimal however, and my suggestion would be to upgrade the fixture.  If it is possible to remove the existing lighting apparatus completely and be left with completely open housing for the full length (i.e., nothing in the middle once the apparatus is taken out), you could get a single or dual T8 fixture from Home Depot or similar, and fit this in.  Depending upon the width when empty, you might fit in a dual-tube fixture, say a 36-inch if not a 48-inch, would be adequate.  I'm wondering if the length would take a 48-inch, considering it now has two 18-inch, but even the 36-inch would be much better light.  The cost of either is not much (I paid $39 for a dual 24-inch fixture here in Canada, for my two 3-foot tanks).
 
Another option would be a single tube T5 fixture, new, that takes a single 48-inch T5 tube.  I doubt you will find T8 fixtures any more, I searched all over the place recently without success, though in the US you might find something somewhere.  LED is another option, though as you mention initially you need a good unit for this to work.  I have tried a couple, and they went back after a few days.  The good planted tank LED lighting is very expensive in NA, plus it is not easy to get good light in the first place.
 
Byron.

 

[julielynn47]

My tank has a divider in the center and I don't think it is removable. It is built in with the top of the tank. So I pretty much have to go with the 2 lights.  A 48 inch hood light will fit across the top of my tank. I know this because I just received a 75 gallon aquarium as a gift and it came with the light fixture. But of course, there is that center divider that does not remove.  So I can't do a long solid fixture.
 
What I am thinking about doing is getting a new glass top for the tank and getting these Life Glo tubes to go in the light fixtures I have now.   http/www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12765   The reason for the new glass top is because the plastic pieces that the light fixtures sit on are getting, I don't know what you call it, but they are starting to look like headlights on a car after a few years, you know, kinda cloudy.  So I am thinking that is not really helping in the light showing through either.  So with a clear glass top and the Life Glo bulbs, maybe I will have enough light for fish and plants.   I guess it can't hurt to try it 
 
The lights that I had for so many years were probably, as with almost everything else, a lot better then than they are now.   I did search at WalMart online, and I can order them, but after hearing that others who have bought them were not happy with them, ( according to the local fish store, who can't get them anymore ) it just makes me wonder if the quality has decreased in them.  So I think I just need to change and see what happens.   The old lights that I got from the local store, this is a mom and pop store, not a huge chain, did not really have them for sale, they used them in their tanks and sold me 2 of them.  So if they can't get them anymore, chances are I will never find them again.

 

[Byron]

My tank has a divider in the center and I don't think it is removable. It is built in with the top of the tank. So I pretty much have to go with the 2 lights.  A 48 inch hood light will fit across the top of my tank. I know this because I just received a 75 gallon aquarium as a gift and it came with the light fixture. But of course, there is that center divider that does not remove.  So I can't do a long solid fixture.
 

 
This "divider" I assume is the brace front to back which is part of the frame...you certainly do not want to remove that.  My two 4-foot tanks do not have this, intentionally, and I can assure you that the pressure of the water pushes the front and back glass out by a good inch or more.  My 5-foot tank had a brace.
 
If the brace rises above the tank frame, then yes, it will prevent 4-foot fixtures/tubes unless you were to build them up above it somehow.
 

What I am thinking about doing is getting a new glass top for the tank and getting these Life Glo tubes to go in the light fixtures I have now.  http/www.drsfoster...fm?pcatid=12765   The reason for the new glass top is because the plastic pieces that the light fixtures sit on are getting, I don't know what you call it, but they are starting to look like headlights on a car after a few years, you know, kinda cloudy.  So I am thinking that is not really helping in the light showing through either.  So with a clear glass top and the Life Glo bulbs, maybe I will have enough light for fish and plants.   I guess it can't hurt to try it 
 

 
Yes, that is the best tube under these circumstances.  The light is good, both intensity and spectrum, and colours are rendered true.  Plants do very well with this tube.
 
You are correct about the discoloured plastic reducing light further.  This can occur with glass too; I remove and clean the glass covers at every weekly water change.

 

[julielynn47]

One more thing, I know the lighting is so very important to plants, but would it also be beneficial to use liquid C02. I got some of that as well, but don't really know if I should use it.
 
And thanks so much for all your input!   It has really helped

 

[Byron]

One more thing, I know the lighting is so very important to plants, but would it also be beneficial to use liquid C02. I got some of that as well, but don't really know if I should use it.
 
And thanks so much for all your input!   It has really helped

 
You've very welcome.  On the liquid CO2, no.  I'll come back to some detail about nutrients and light, but first on these so-called liquid carbon supplements like Flourish Excel (I am assuming you have this one, as you mention Seachem products) or the API CO2 Booster.  These are glutaraldehyde and water.  Glutaraldehyde is a highly toxic disinfectant used in hospitals, antifreeze, to kill bacteria in the ballast of ships moving from one ocean to another, etc.  Regardless of anyone saying the fish are not harmed, it is not sensible to put such a chemical in a tank with fish.  Aside from that, when used as directed these products will kill Vallisneria and some other plants, and if overdosed can harm and kill plants, fish and bacteria.  I cannot recommend such chemicals.
 
Now to the nutrients and light; I don't know your level of understanding, so forgive me if some or much of this is already known.  
 
Light drives photosynthesis, which is how plants grow.  Different plants have differing light requirements to drive photosynthesis, and duration does not make up for weak intensity.  The light has to be of a specific intensity for the plant species (which is why I asked about species previously).  Slow growing plants tend to require less light while fast growing plants need more light.  With that in mind, we come to the nutrients; aquatic plants require 17 nutrients to allow photosynthesis to occur.  These must be balanced with the light intensity, and balanced with each other, to some degree.  Excess of some nutrients can actually be detrimental because plants can shut down other nutrient assimilation, so to speak.  And any excess nutrients beyond what the plants will need is only going to feed algae.  Light can do the same; too much or too little can encourage algae, depending.
 
Carbon is one of the macro-nutrients plants (as indeed all animals) need.  But the other nutrients have to be sufficient in balance.  Plant photosynthesis is governed by the law of minimum as it is called; plants will photosynthesise full out until something is no longer available, at which point they slow down photosynthesis and may stop altogether.  They can store some nutrients (plants have different capacities for this) but only up to a point.  They can also move certain nutrients (these are termed mobile nutrients) from leaf to leaf, to provide more to new growth for example, allowing the older leaf to die as a result.  So there is some overlap in all this, but it is not infinite, so we aim to achieve a balance based upon the plant species, light intensity and available nutrients.
 
All nutrients will be present if fish are in the tank, as they arrive in fish foods and occur from the natural biological processes of fish.  Nitrogen for example, another macro-nutrient, is usually plentiful because fish release ammonia, and plants take up the ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source of nitrogen.  They also use nitrate, which as you know results from the nitrification cycle.  Oxygen is (or should be) plentiful, as should hydrogen.  The micro nutrients, or trace minerals, are sometimes in minimum supply, and these can easily be added via fertilizers.  Which leaves carbon.
 
CO2 is produced by nearly all organisms in the aquarium.  Fish, plants and some bacteria respirate continually.  But the bulk of CO2 comes from the breakdown of organics primarily in the substrate, then the filter.  Not keeping the substrate too clean will benefit this.  I am not an advocate of dirty filters, as that can lead to other issues that I won't get into.  I have found that a regular filter rinsing (frequency depends upon the tank conditions) goes a long way in preventing algae, cyanobacteria and other organically-related problems like bacterial and diatom blooms.  Anyway, the CO2 will usually be higher than many expect.  But plants use a lot of it, and it will usually run out at some point during the daylight (tank lighting on = daylight sufficient to drive photosynthesis).  It rebuilds at night when plants do not take it up, and then during the daylight they use it usually faster than it can be replenished.  The point at which this occurs, when plants reach the end and CO2 becomes the limiting factor, is the point we turn off the tank lighting.  Algae can be a guide to this.
 
Byron.