What Am I Doing Wrong

[new_world_disorder]

well ive had a tropical tank for 7 years now. and every year or so everything just dies. what am i doing wrong
i have a cheapish filter ( a my fluval 400 died ) i am going to get a new fliter tmoz. i have a heater that is suited to the tank size. and thats about it at the mo.
What i really need to know is ...... whats the best setup ? the tank is 30 x 15 x 12 " ?

thanks

adam

 

[Danno]

After every year tanks should be completely broken down for a SUPER cleaning. Filter taken apart, gravel replaced, ornaments bleached, tank scrubbed. Have you ever done a break down?

 

[Christine1014]

Can you give us a bunch more information? What type of fish have you tried keeping, what/how are you feeding them, how often do you do water changes, what do you do (and how often) to clean the tank....?
Do you currently have fish that are alive? how are they doing? What are your water stats?

Sorry, I know that's a lot of questions, but it will help us figure out what's going on!

 

[new_world_disorder]

i have no idea what my *water stats* are. never checked them to be honist. urm. i did have to small silver sharks. a little sucker thingy ( sorry i have no idea what the names are or anything ) i had a load of guppy's and a few tetras. they all lasted a yearish. as for cleaning. i used to clean it all out completley every 6 months. im asuming now that this is way to often. i never really did water changes. and as for the food, i was using dried food from a local fish shop.

cheers

ad

 

[Kevstir]

that makes it a 23 us gallon tank.

what's your water stats for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH?h how often do you clean out the tank and how much water do you change ??

Is it around the same time of year everything dies?? if so could be temp related , what temp do you keep the tank at??

also what stock of fish are you keeping.

i know it sounds like a lot of questions but with enough info it makes it easier to offer the right kind of help

Kev

After every year tanks should be completely broken down for a SUPER cleaning. Filter taken apart, gravel replaced, ornaments bleached, tank scrubbed. Have you ever done a break down?

Never heard that one before.

new_world_disorder 25% water changes a week or every 2 weeks at a stretch should be the norm and clean 50% of the gravel/sand every other week.

when you cleaned out the filter did you clean the sponges in old tank water or tap water??

Kev

 

[Amunet]

i have no idea what my *water stats* are. never checked them to be honist. urm. i did have to small silver sharks. a little sucker thingy ( sorry i have no idea what the names are or anything ) i had a load of guppy's and a few tetras. they all lasted a yearish. as for cleaning. i used to clean it all out completley every 6 months. im asuming now that this is way to often. i never really did water changes. and as for the food, i was using dried food from a local fish shop.

cheers

ad

You really should get yourself a liquid test kit so you'll know what your water stats are.
Also cleaning everything out is probably causing your tank to cycle all over again totally stressing the fish out and also probably exposing them to high amounts of ammonia & nitrite as the tank cycles over again. And with no regular water changes to keep these down, the fish end up dying.

 

[new_world_disorder]

cleaned the filters in old tank water....as for cleaning 50% of the gravel/sand. surley that would suck as it would mean taking out any wood/rocks/plants to get the gravel out then re-aranging it all ??

whats the best filtration system to go for ? ( not spending to much ) undergravel ? or a fluval style unit ?

 

[Christine1014]

Hmm... if you say you had "loads" of anything in a 23 gallon tank, you were probably overstocked. The really rough rule of thumb is 1-inch of (fully grown) fish for every gallon.

"Water stats" refer to ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH, etc. I'm just guessing here, and certainly don't mean to sound like I'm criticizing (trust me, most new fishkeepers start out making this mistake!) - if you didn't have a test kit, you probably didn't know about cycling your tank. Quick summery: fish waste = ammonia. In time, bacteria called nitrItes build up that process the ammonia. Over even more time, NitrAtes build up that process the nitrIte. Ammonia and nitrIte are extremely harmful to fish. If you have ANY ammount present in your tank, it's really bad. NitrAtes can be handled. Most people have nitrates that hover around 40ppm. But to keep the nitrates from building up any more and becoming harmful, most people do a weekly cleaning/water change with a gravel vacuum, sucking up all the decaying food, fish waste, etc.

So if you weren't vacuuming & changing water, your nitrates were probably building up to intollerable levels. When you cleaned the tank every 6 months, you were likely destroying the beneficial bacteria that HAD built up, and then your tank would go through the nitrate cycle (the development of all the good bacteria) all over again.

If that sounds pretty much right, never fear; you've come to the right place! I've no doubt we'd all be more than happy to give you some pointers and answer the zillion questions I'm sure you have right now, and get you back on the road to succesful fish keeping!

 

[Danno]

Kenstir, in the full tank cleaning, you would keep your filter media intact. You don't want to uncycle the tank while cleaning.

 

[new_world_disorder]

thanks christine1014, yeh that sounds about right. what im wandering now is whats the best way to set up again. ive got a gd heater nd light ... and a #### filter and a air pump ( for preety bubles. lol ) what should i go for... not bothered about the price. i dont want to much hastle. whats a gd flitration system to go for ??

ad

 

[Christine1014]

In my mind, you've got two options.
For a tank under 30 gallons, an HOB (Hang On Back) filter is a perfectly viable option. Or you could use an external canister filter (I've got a Fluval, but since buying that, I learned that Eheims are much better -- they're supposed to last a lot longer). The canisters are far more expensive than the HOBs, but the benefit is that they're a little more efficient, and can be stored under the tank (or wherever). My 44 gallon has a Fluval external canister, 305, and my 10 gallon planted tank has a Whisper 30. (Overfiltering is highly recommned, especially if you tend to overstock with fish. The bigger your filter, the more space you're giving beneficial bacteria to grow. For a 23 gallon, i'd go with something that at least says it can filter a 40 gallon).

There are technically other options. An internal filter works, but it takes up space inside the tank, so I don't like those. Undergravels are okay too, but I think they're more of a pain and less efficient than the other methods.

I do disagree with Danno on one point (no offense to you Danno! ) -- I don't do the yearly breakdown. I find that as long as I do the gravel vacuuming every week, clean the filter every 2-3 weeks and the filter in-take / return tubing every 6 months, there's no real need for the complete breakdown.

Oh, and earlier you mentioned that it might be a pain cleaning the gravel... it's actually not too hard. There are a couple of different styles of vacuums (I can go on and on about that too... let me know if you want me to! ) and you just kind of dig the tube around in the gravel to get all the gunk up. I left up my rocks and stuff and vacuum under them (well, most of the time anyway!), but in my planted tank I just go around the plants.

Oh - sorry, I almost forgot -- you asked the best way to get started again! First thing, I'd go to the newbie section; at the top of that section there's a "pinned" topic titled something like "Fishless cycling." Have a read of that, figure out what filter you want, start your fishless cycle, and while you're waiting around for the beneficial bacteria to build up, read up on what kinds of fish you want to try keeping again. (Oh, and you'll need a water test kit, too. I recommend the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. It's about $30 at the big chain pet stores. but whatever you do, don't get those test strip things! They're notoriously innaccurate and for some reason many of them don't contain an ammonia test, and that's the most important one when you're starting off!)


Hope that helps...

 

[new_world_disorder]

yeh that deffo helps. how long should i leave my tank to * fishlessly cycle * before adding fish ? at the mo i have a .. internal filter than suction pads onto the inside of the tank. im going to a local fish shoppy tmorrow to see what they have.

cheers :

ad

 

[Christine1014]

Fishless cycling takes a couple of weeks. You can read more about it here -- http/www.fishforums.net/Fishless-Cycling-t113861.html

The quick version is: you add ammonia to your tank and then do regular water tests to see when you start developing nitrites and then later, nitrates. When you get nitrites that start processing the ammonia, you add more ammonia to keep feeding this new growing beneficial bacteria. When you finally start seeing a nitrAte reading, then you know you're really getting somewhere. When the ammonia that you're putting in is processed quickly, you know you've cycled. You do a big water change then to get the nitrates down, and add the fish straight away. (You've now fully cycled and have a tank/filter equiped to handle a full load of fish, so it's best to add about 75% of your total stocking plan right away; otherwise your fish will be adding less ammonia to the tank than you were, and some of the beneficial bacteria will die off).

One other quick tip -- don't put any wood or anything in your tank while cycling; it can change the PH, and if your PH drops too low (like REALLY low, below 6 or 5, I think) your cycle will stop.

 

[new_world_disorder]

kool. so when should i add the wood ? haha. and how do i add amonia ? its not like i can buy it at the local shops. lol. ad

 

[Miss Wiggle]

After every year tanks should be completely broken down for a SUPER cleaning. Filter taken apart, gravel replaced, ornaments bleached, tank scrubbed. Have you ever done a break down?

i've never done that and it's never done me any harm! decent regular maintenance should mean you don't need to do that