Unexplained Deaths, Possible Link To Hikari Food.

[mikev]

I hope this is not misinterpreted, but I'd like to get to the core of it and a public post is the only way.

Two recent stories that do not make sense with a common link.

Eight days ago, I lost two fishes overnight for no apparent reasons: this was not "new" fish, they were in total isolation for more than three months and were fine the previous day when all fish in the tank was examined closely. Autopsy gave no information. The water parameters were perfect, the tank is appropriate for the species. The other four fishes of the same species were fine and still are as of this moment. The species is non-aggressive. The only change of the routine was feeding with "Hikari Carnivour Pellets" the evening before the deaths.

Since the same package has been used to feed fish in other tanks routinely (some of my fish adores it), I've noticed and dismissed this as a cause.

However, a similar story occurred today with a friend on a larger scale. This morning, an entire tank is dead (again, only one species, but a different one, at least 30 casualties). I saw his fish myself yesterday and it looked perfect. According to him, tank is fine, and I have no reasons to doubt it (he has decades of experience). The food used was a different type of sinking pellets, but the same company.

Two outcomes like this with a common factor make it necessary for me to ask if anybody else had a similar experience recently. Locations of both incidents are the State of New York. Species involved are members of the Balitoridae family (Cypriniformes).

Thank you.

 

[Lynden]

I find Hikari makes excellent quality food.

Maybe what infected the Loaches was an unidentified species specific pathogen?

If your friend lost an entire tank of fish, even if they were all one species, this is not the same thing as losing a specific species in a community tank. Are you sure you can be certain that it wasn't a heavy metal or other chemical undetected by tests?

Or perhaps the fish choked to death on the new food they were given?

-Lynden

 

[mikev]

I have no problems with Hikari quality, and I want to make certain that this is not a complain about Hikari, only an attempt to investigate what has happened by seeing if anyone else had a similar occurance.

I know that it my case no water changes were done prior to the event. I know that he makes water changes on several tanks at once, so a chemical poison introduced with water is very unlikely. Other possibility were extensively checked on my end with no results. I mentioned that these were single species tanks only to provide as complete information as possible, I don't believe that any Cyprinid species has chemical pathogens specific to it. Parasites, Bacteria and Viruses simply do not act this quickly.

Or perhaps the fish choked to death on the new food they were given?

No, this is totally not possible.

 

[CFC]

Could excess food have been left uneaten over night and removed oxygen from the water as it started to break down? Balitorid loaches are very susceptible to low oxygen levels and the weakest of the group would have been affected. This is even more likely if the tank has live plants as during the hours of darkness they switch from using CO2 to O2 so an increase in O2 demand from uneaten food could take the levels over the edge.

 

[black angel]

I agree with CFC, if there are no marks on the fish and you have lots die in one go i would say a depletion in O2 as well.

You see this commonly in pond fish where a large percentage die and no other cause can be found and usually in the morning.

 

[mikev]

CFC,

What you are saying is interesting, I should figure out how to watch for this kind of thing too, this is a definite potential danger.

It probably has no connection to my deaths, since I'm overcareful with hillstreams: their 10g tank has two filters , one is a HOB, lots of O2 comes from it (water permanently lowered), plus a powerhead. This particular species is not of the super-O2-dependent type. (I do have about 30 hillstream loaches right now in 4 tanks, so I have some idea about their needs.)
(I've discussed my case on LOL too, and the only other thing we could come with their was deaths from Old Age. Both fishes were certainly be quite old: large size, slower, and deteriorated markings. But two deaths at once makes this improbable.) The connection of my incident to food is also very iffy, and probably false, since I used most of the pellets feeding other loaches with no problems.

Meanwhile, we do have near certainty on the new case. Additional deaths occurred in other tanks among other type of fish that ate the same food, it just took longer for stronger fish.

 

[Bullrock74]

Meanwhile, we do have near certainty on the new case. Additional deaths occurred in other tanks among other type of fish that ate the same food, it just took longer for stronger fish.

It might help if you tell us exactly which type of Hikari food is in question and the approximate date it was purchased or manufactured. I am currently using two of their Oscar foods without any adverse effects.

 

[guppymonkey]

I would think some other explanation besides the food would be a little more likely. If it was the first time they were given the food and they didn't eat it the rotting food could severely lower the oxygen levels. I don't really think Hikari is that great of a food but there are a lot of foods that are a lot worse. I have never heard of any problems with deaths caused by their foods before.

 

[mikev]

Brands in question: Hikari Carnivour Sinking Pellets, Micropellets.

I'm wondering if the rotting food may indeed be a factor on my end. When I found the two dead was possibly the only time when I also noticed uneaten food left in the tank, usually they do finish all the food...but they ate one of the dead instread. OK, as a scenario this does make sense:

One dies from the old age, I don't see the body for possibly as long as 24 hours (it was in a place where it was hard to see), body decomposes together with extra food, O2 deprivation kills one more fish; followup cleanup and water changes presumably stopped the process.

Does not explain the other accident, however. Lets not guess until I know a little more.

And to make sure: I'm not questioning Hikari or any particular brand. But any manufactured food occasionally does get contaminated. The chances are that if something like this occur, it would be in this area.

Hopefully if someone else hits this, he'll google, hit this thread and we can compare the notes.