The Betta Myth

[JohnnyReb]

Everyone says do not let the Betta males see each other. They must have a solid divider where they cannot see each other or they will stress out or bla, bla, bla. Let me tell you IMHO, that is bull. I have allowed my males to flare for from 4 to 12 hours and no effect, other than they are heather and more satisfied active fish. I wonder how much other information is myth? Weigh in on that now!!

 

[emeraldking]

I've kept and bred Bettas for years and yes we're dealing with a number of generalizations that people stick to. Besides Betta splendens, I've also kept other betta species. But I will now just focus on Betta splendens. For that's the most kept Betta species in the world. Keep always a male single! Well, experience tells me that we can put multiple males in one tank if the tank is big enough. For this betta species will make its own territorium in a tank. that's basically a small part of the tank. Such a Betta cans wim from left to right in the tank but will return to a specific spot. As long as other males won't bother about that specific territorium in a tank, there will nothing to be worried about. And when they pass eachother, most of the time they'll try to impress another and not fight. Dancing in circle with their open fins and gills is nothing more than impressing another. If they'll fight, you see them grabbing in eachother in a ball shape.
When I use to breed them and sold them at vivaristic events, I'd put all of my males in one barrel which was dark and kept the temperature low. With a lower temperature, their metabolism will go down and they won't have the urge to bother another. And also the darkness makes them calm. When it's time to jar them for the event, I get them out of the barrel and let the temperature increase. I can assure you that all males were undamaged and in a good health.
Putting young males together till they're halfway to adulthood shouldn't also be a problem.
When I jarred males, those small container were next to eachother where they could see another. There were moments that they would flare but the moments that they wouldn't flare to another were the majority. They can be lazy bastards...

LIke I've already said, I'm only focusing on Betta splendens overhere. For there are males of certain Betta species that are more aggressive towards another.

 

[JohnnyReb]

I've kept and bred Bettas for years and yes we're dealing with a number of generalizations that people stick to. Besides Betta splendens, I've also kept other betta species. But I will now just focus on Betta splendens. For that's the most kept Betta species in the world. Keep always a male single! Well, experience tells me that we can put multiple males in one tank if the tank is big enough. For this betta species will make its own territorium in a tank. that's basically a small part of the tank. Such a Betta cans wim from left to right in the tank but will return to a specific spot. As long as other males won't bother about that specific territorium in a tank, there will nothing to be worried about. And when they pass eachother, most of the time they'll try to impress another and not fight. Dancing in circle with their open fins and gills is nothing more than impressing another. If they'll fight, you see them grabbing in eachother in a ball shape.
When I use to breed them and sold them at vivaristic events, I'd put all of my males in one barrel which was dark and kept the temperature low. With a lower temperature, their metabolism will go down and they won't have the urge to bother another. And also the darkness makes them calm. When it's time to jar them for the event, I get them out of the barrel and let the temperature increase. I can assure you that all males were undamaged and in a good health.
Putting young males together till they're halfway to adulthood shouldn't also be a problem.
When I jarred males, those small container were next to eachother where they could see another. There were moments that they would flare but the moments that they wouldn't flare to another were the majority. They can be lazy bastards...

LIke I've already said, I'm only focusing on Betta splendens overhere. For there are males of certain Betta species that are more aggressive towards another.

Thank you for your very informative take on the myth. I found your reply, which was based on your personal experience, 10 times more informative than the generalizations we see often made by people who do not have enough personal background to give out knowledge.

 

[emeraldking]

Thank you for your very informative take on the myth. I found your reply, which was based on your personal experience, 10 times more informative than the generalizations we see often made by people who do not have enough personal background to give out knowledge.

Same with livebearers. I've been telling so often that most people also work with generalizations when it comes to livebearers. Me as being a passionate livebearer breeder read and see too often that people generalize about the reproduction, water parameters and so on. While the real story is differently.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Same with livebearers. I've been telling so often that most people also work with generalizations when it comes to livebearers. Me as being a passionate livebearer breeder read and see too often that people generalize about the reproduction, water parameters and so on. While the real story is differently.

I agree with you 100%!!!

 

[emeraldking]

I agree with you 100%!!!

There are livebearers that need soft water instead of hard. There are livebearers that breed slow and have a just handful of fry. There are lots of livebearers that can be kept at a 1m:1f ratio. Or even at more males than females. There are lots of livebearers that can be kept better at lower temperatures than higher. Just to name a couple of them...

 

[GaryE]

I'd argue the male alone for rearing isn't about the health of the fish. It's about money. Males will spar in a large tank, and with fancy splendens, fins will get nipped. That decreases their value.
Look at how many keepers here treat Bettas for fin problems, when the problems are just their being able to swim outside a jar for the first time in their lives. Fancy fins can tear. Immobilize the fish, and they get a better price. I hate to see that.

I know of a fish store owner who is financed by his wealthy Mom, and who really knows very little about freshwater fish. He ordered female Bettas and got young, 75% mature male longfins. He put them all together because they had to be females, and guess what happened?
Nothing bad. The soft tissue between some fin rays was torn. I went back to have a look, and he was still selling them as females. They were flaring away, but keeping their stations.

They were long bred as a gambler's fish in a bloodsport, and some will rip each other up. I don't think you can go out and buy 2 male splendens for a 10 gallon. The hobby's half convinced they can't be in a tank with any other fish. That hasn't been my experience, as long as the idiotic fins don't get nipped by tankmates.

Flame shields up.

 

[JohnnyReb]

I'd argue the male alone for rearing isn't about the health of the fish. It's about money. Males will spar in a large tank, and with fancy splendens, fins will get nipped. That decreases their value.
Look at how many keepers here treat Bettas for fin problems, when the problems are just their being able to swim outside a jar for the first time in their lives. Fancy fins can tear. Immobilize the fish, and they get a better price. I hate to see that.

I know of a fish store owner who is financed by his wealthy Mom, and who really knows very little about freshwater fish. He ordered female Bettas and got young, 75% mature male longfins. He put them all together because they had to be females, and guess what happened?
Nothing bad. The soft tissue between some fin rays was torn. I went back to have a look, and he was still selling them as females. They were flaring away, but keeping their stations.

They were long bred as a gambler's fish in a bloodsport, and some will rip each other up. I don't think you can go out and buy 2 male splendens for a 10 gallon. The hobby's half convinced they can't be in a tank with any other fish. That hasn't been my experience, as long as the idiotic fins don't get nipped by tankmates.

Flame shields up.

I 100% agree.

 

[emeraldking]

I went back to have a look, and he was still selling them as females.

A lot of stores sell males as being females when those males are still young. But that already starts at the wholesaler. Young males tend to look like females before they'll show their male traits.

The hobby's half convinced they can't be in a tank with any other fish. That hasn't been my experience

A part from my Betta breeding hobby, we (so, also my parents) kept a betta in each community tank we had throughout the years without any problems.

 

[JohnnyReb]

A lot of stores sell males as being females when those males are still young. But that already starts at the wholesaler. Young males tend to look like females before they'll show their male traits.

A part from my Betta breeding hobby, we (so, also my parents) kept a betta in each community tank we had throughout the years without any problems.

Yes, when 99.9% of your business is selling males and roughly 50% of you fry are females, there is incentive to cheat.

 

[Back in the fold]

I’ve always let males see each other and flare at each other . I keep a small mirror beside their aquarium also . It’s no different than a parakeet admiring himself in a mirror . I think it keeps them healthy .

 

[MuddyWaters]

he hobby's half convinced they can't be in a tank with any other fish

I've never kept them alone- always with other fish. Only time it didn't work was when I had 3 tiger barbs (I was about 13 then). That poor guy had a helluva time. Other than that, they always did fine. They're not my fave, though, so I haven't had one in a long time.

 

[GaryE]

The store in question had no missing it males, with full fins where the colour was on its way to the tips.

My plan is to never keep Betta splendens again, but I'm glad of the ones I used to have. Some were really good pets, and I managed to learn a lot with them.

 

[JohnnyReb]

I’ve always let males see each other and flare at each other . I keep a small mirror beside their aquarium also . It’s no different than a parakeet admiring himself in a mirror . I think it keeps them healthy .

I agree.

 

[CassCats]

I'm against the grain on this one, respectfully to those with other opinions though.

Today's bettas are often prone to health issues as it is, especially bad finnage, majority are mass bred and genetic health isn't cared for much these days with them. They tend to be more prone to problems and keeping them in conditions that increase those odds of problems I find is more risky than it's worth. Nipped fins from them bickering are likely to get infected easier and other stress-induced illnesses can happen as well. Plus, most are gluttons so can easily overeat, which can risk bloat and dropsy. Group settings and community setups are much more difficult--though not impossible--to manage this over eating habit. I've not had success with them in communities as they'd either be terrors to tankmates or would gorge themselves to death, regardless if I fed at night to avoid them eating too much... they'd still find the cories or such eating their wafers and they'd gorge themselves off that i find it's better for the betta to have a more controlled environment by itself.

How they'd fare in a much larger tank, that's an interesting concept, but try convincing most of this hobby what's a large enough space for even one betta, let alone a group. Juveniles who grew up together may do fine, but a lot of people try to insist long term sororities with too many adult females for it to stay successful. There is a general low success rate in longterm group setups, as a whole. Fish being raised from fry and sold together aren't staying together their entire lives and perhaps do fine short term. I don't think it's impossible and probably works out, but it's the longterm that's questionable and risky, as a lot in the hobby have found. Mostly directed at folks who do sororities. A lot of people have stopped recommending them because they have a low success rate in the long run.



That said, I don't breed bettas, but just general pet keeping for me. Bettas have a ton of personality and they vary so much with it, it's a complex thing. Generally, it's likely more successful to keep solo instead of gambling on spending a lot of time and money trying to get groups that end up being totally peaceful longterm.


We recommend mostly keeping certain fish in certain sex ratios, despite stores often cramming all of them together in one tank. It does fine in the store, sure, but it's not a longterm housing. I'd love to see someone keep a group of male only cichlids in a tank and expect it to stay fine in the long run. I think it's something we should always keep in mind with the types of fish that have intense personality variations and have known territorial behaviors that we are gambling and knowing there's many other factors that don't leave it all one size fits all.