Suspected Ich outbreak - advice needed

[Chriss94]

Hi all!
Copper issue

I have a 215L (50G) freshwater tank. Suspected Ich outbreak.

Tank is 3 weeks old, not fully cycled, no chemical filtration in filter. Two large purple live rocks, 2 decent sized pieces of Golden Vine driftwood, and 6 plants.
Current water parameters:

• PH: 7.4
• Ammonia: 0.25ppm
• Nitrite: 0ppm
• Nitrate: 0ppm - 5.0ppm
• GH: 125.3ppm
• KH: 107.4ppm
• Temp: 29 degrees (84.2F)

I have started using Seachem Cupramine as a copper agent to tackle the Ich at its early stages.
Added 2.5ml (recommended dose) on 23/08.

Have been testing the copper concentration twice daily using the Seachem Copper test kit.
Every time I test, I am getting a reading of roughly 0.1mg/l of copper, when I need to maintain a concentration of 0.25mg/l for 2 weeks.

I have dosed every day since 23/08
Dosed on:

23/08 2.5ml

24/08 2.5ml

25/08 2.5ml

26/08 2.5ml

The recommended concentration in the water should be 0.25mg/l for 2 weeks.

With the 8 tests completed over this time, it consistently shows a reading of roughly 0.1mg/l.

I am not sure how to raise it without continually adding doses, and potentially harming my fish.

I can only assume that there is something in the tank which is absorbing this copper, and therefore, reducing the concentration in the water column.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to maintain the dose of 0.25mg/l, or what might be the likely cause of the low readings?

Further more, I have turned off the tank lights, covered with a blanket - to keep it dark and to keep this fish calm so they aren’t using as much oxygen, and I have tried to add more oxygen to the tank via 2 air stones and more water agitation.

Further to the above issue of the copper concentrations, does anyone else have any suggestions on what I should be doing to deal with this suspected Ich problem?

I have lost one dwarf gourami already (after the addition of Cupramine - presumably a weaker fish who was sensitive to it. The other fish are doing just fine.
Only one of the other dwarf gourami are showing signs of Ich, all the other fish (as far as I can see) do not seem to be currently affected by it (physically anyway).

Fish in the tank:

• 1 x Ghost Knife Fish
• 4 x B alloon Molly’s
• 4 x Dwarf Gourami (has 5 before the death)
• 15 x Tetras
• 1 x Albino Danio
• 2 x Silver Sharks (Bala Shark)
• 2 x Clown Loach
• 2 x Angel Fish
• 2 x Plecos (potentially a Bristlenose)
• 1 x Bolivian Ram
• 
  
• 
  **most of the fish are juveniles**

**most of the fish are juveniles**


I have started the copper treatment more as a precaution than anything, as even though it is suspected, I don’t want it becoming a full blown issue, and as long as I keep the copper concentration at a steady 0.25mg/l in the water column, it is not toxic to the fish.
Although, the fish I am mainly worried about are the two clown loaches, for obvious reasons.

It is worth nothing that I am relatively new to this, but have done my research, but I believe I would great benefit with the advice of you guys who have the experience and knowledge that I am lacking as a newbie.

So my two questions:

1. My issue with maintaining the copper dose (and raising)

2. What else can I do / do you recommend I do, to deal with the Ich, from your positive experiences in the past.
Also, as I don’t have a second tank, other treatments probably won’t work due to staining etc. this is my main and only tank.

Thank you for taking the time for reading, I really appreciate it and hope to hear your thoughts soon....

Thanks all,
Chris

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Hey, Chris, a few questions back at you. What kind of substrate are you using? What makes you suspect you have ich? What symptoms are you seeing? I'm not a great medicine expert (I think that's more @Byron 's cup of tea), but I don't know if I'd go with a copper medicine for ich, especially if you aren't absolutely certain that's what it is.

Ich is serious, but I think the ammonia is probably a bigger worry. Any measurable amount is toxic and can sicken your fish in a hurry. I recommend daily 50%+ water changes, and treatment with seachem prime to take care of what's left.

Also, you have some serious stocking issues. Even if you get everybody over the suspected ich, you're in for some big troubles down the road. I don't want to be Debbie Downer, or get you all overwhelmed, but you need to know, so here goes, in approximate order of urgency:

If your live rock is what I think it is, that's a salt-water thing. In freshwater, the organisms are going to die and make your ammonia problem that much worse.

Dwarf gouramis generally don't do well in groups--the males get very aggressive with each other. I'm also worried about keeping them with angelfish, which tend to be pretty aggressive.

One danio by itself is going to be perpetually stressed; they need a school to be happy.

Mollies need very hard water, but some of your other fish are soft-water species.

A pair of bristlenoses are probably not going to get along in a 50g.

Bala sharks don't belong in a 50g. They get enormous, far too big for any normal home aquarium. Same goes for clown loaches--they will very quickly outgrow a 55. (Let me guess: the pet store told you it was OK? Welcome to aquarium keeping! NEVER take pet store employee advice seriously. Do the research yourself.)

I don't know anything about dwarf knife fish except they look very cool, but I seem to remember that they have some unique needs as well.

I really hate to rain on your parade, but it's better to find out now than later, right? Let us know what's happening on the ich and we'll go from there.

 

[seangee]

Commenting on the ich only:
The only treatment I recommend is increasing the temperature gradually to 30C. Once the last visible signs are gone keep the temperature elevated for 2 weeks. No other treatment is required. Ich cannot survive in this temperature and 2 weeks is enough to ensure you get through the full lifecycle.

 

[Essjay]

I agree with seangee, heat treatment is better than chemical treatment as I commented in your other thread.


And I agree with WhistlingBadger, your stocking is going to cause trouble - the tank is too small for a lot of your fish (knife fish, bala sharks, clown loach) and you don't have enough of the shoaling fish (danios, bala sharks, clown loach).

Once the ich is sorted we can talk about a more suitable stocking for your tank.

 

[AbbeysDad]

+3 on raising the temp to 86°F. I have a spare heater that I adjusted to 86°F in a 5g bucket. Just drop in and plug in. Works great. After the cure (as @seangee points out), just unplug and later remove.

 

[Byron]

I concur with other members on the ich treatment. Do a couple major water changes to get rid of the copper stuff, and use these W/C to increase the heat a few degrees with each. Set the heater to maintain 86F/30C for two weeks. This will in 99% of the time kill the ich without harming the fish. The species mentioned will have no real issues with the heat; ensure good surface disturbance however, to keep oxygen levels good.

Copper is toxic to all fish. Minimal amounts as in plant fertilizers are usually safe, but once you start increasing copper to levels to deal with disease you are significantly risking the fish. Substances add to the water can get inside the fish, and any that do will cause further stress no matter what, and as stress is the direct reason for some 95% of aquarium fish disease, it is wise to avoid it whenever you can.

The combination of fish is causing stress here too, as others also mentioned, but that is another issue though one that must be addressed before it is too late.