Stalled Fishless Cycle

[Kevstir]

Hi guys

At the moment if going through a fishless cycle on my juwel vision 180 , started it last Sunday (24th sept) , got the ammonia up to 4ppm and by the Tue is was falling , got it back up to 4ppm and ever so slowly it got to 2ppm and has stayed there for about a week , i thought i might have added a little to much as my test kit shows 4ppm then 8ppm on the test card so could have been in between that ..

Now i have 2 bits of bogwood that were soaked for 2 weeks before i put them in the tank but still leached a little tarrins, i checked the pH last night and it was 6 but that's as low as the test kit goes down to so could have been lower , iv just read that this could be the reason my cycle has stalled what you think???, what i plan on doing tonight is do a big water change to bring it back up as my tap water is 7.2 , the bog wood has been in the tank for 2 weeks so that's 4 weeks of smoking , will the bog wood drop the pH by such a big amount again?? will just have to keep and eye on it ..

the tanks planted if that makes a difference?? also got Argos play sand in the bottom so i don't think that would cause any trouble..

Kev

 

[mr.dark-saint]

When Tannin leaches out the pH drops. And if my memory recalls (correctly) Ammonia is less toxic at lower pH. Which may test at a "stall" or unchanged like in your situation. The log will leach a little less everytime but without major change it'll be a good long while.

A big water change will just retard the cycle further (close to the begining I'd guess). And without removing the wood it'll keep leaching out Tannin and lowering the pH (so the water change was a waste of time and money if you carried it out and on top you'll revert back and will need to build back the ammonia). Depending on how long the log has been leaching before you found it (if it were me I'd boil a big pot of water and boil the log (this would speed up the leaching) and change the wter as it turns brown until it's clear or really close to clear). Or you can bucket it and soak it and change the water as it changes color (this takes a while).

If the plants are dying then the pH will drop and ammonia would rise if the rot is not taken out. But if the plant's are fine then they shouldn't effect the water other than feeding off the nitrates.

 

[Kevstir]

Cheers m8

My thinking was that i already have bacteria in the filter (i seeded with some gravel from my other tank) so if i change the water all I'm doing is getting the pH back up , i wouldn't have thought changing the water would put me back to square one, the new water isn't gonna kill the bacteria in the filter. obviously i would declor and add ammonia again with the new water.

I bought the bogwood from 2 local fish shops , they were soaked in a big bucket for 2 weeks with daily water changes , by the end of the 2 weeks the water was running clear , since they have been in the warmer water in the tank they have leached some more , that's 4 weeks soaking in total..

the plants are doing great , well the 3 out of 7 that i got from eBay that were real aquatic plants are lol, the other 4 were removed before they rotted ..

Kev

 

[scubadoo]

If you add way too much ammonia during a fishless cycle it can take a long time for the bacteria to geta colony large enough to have a noticable effect.

This happened during my fishless cycle, though it was with the nitrite munching bacteria not the ammonia munchers. I would do a water change - approx 50% and then check the levels of your ammonia - it should now be on your chart. Dont forget to treat the water before you add it.

Do yourself a favour and throw the paper test strips away - they are notoriously unreliable. Get yourself liquid master test kit - the API kit is quite good and is good value at about £17 for testing pH, ammonia, nitrite & nitrate.

Is your 'bogwood' actually bogwood or is it mopani wood - mopani is NOT bogwood ?
If you're concerned about it, it may be best to take it out and continue to soak it in a bucket, changing the water regularly - I soaked my mopani for 3-4 weeks during my fishless cycle and added it after the cycle was complete without problems except a bit of pee colored water

During a fishless cycle, you can pretty much ignore your pH - it will be all over the place because of the high levels of ammonia you're adding.

Your plants shouldn't affect your cycle at all - in fact some can be helpful since their root systems contain some of the nitryfying bacteria that you're trying to cultivate - it is advisable though to leave them in their pots with the rockwool to help seed your filter. If you've already planted in your susbstrate dont worry about it - its not a problem.

 

[Kevstir]

Hi

The amonnia is on the chart at 2ppm and has been like that for a week now, sorry forgot to mention its the api master test kit im using.

as far as i know its bogwood i have , how do you tell the difference?? heres some picture's (all non aquatic plants removed now)

plants didnt come in pots m8 , there planted with some nutrafin plant grow sticks under the roots

Kev

 

[scubadoo]

OK - looks like I misunderstood

If the ammonia is now at 2, i'd take it back up to 4ppm and see how quickly it gets processed down. It looks to me like you're in the early stages and it will take a while longer before you have enough bacteria to get the levels down.

Mopani wood tends to have a cleaner finish - in that the wood has been sand blasted and you often get a colour variation from pale to dark from one side to the other. Most of the wood I've seen sold recently in stores has been mopani.

 

[Kevstir]

the thing that gets me stumped is that when i started it went form 4ppm down to .50 in 3 days , i guess seeding the tank with gravel put in a sock hung inside the filter (juwel) helped, but, when i added amonnia again it went down to 2ppm and its been there for a week , wouldnt it just continue to fall until there was no amonia?? think i will do a 25% water change tonight , seed with more gravel and keep a closer eye on things , iv read a a couple of sites that sugest a very low ph can slow the bactiria down if thats the case then hopefully i can kick start it again tonight

i think my heads gonna explode with all the research ya gotta do in this hobbie

would a kh test kit be any good??? i live in scotland with very soft water so maybe thats not helping

 

[scubadoo]

I know that rdd (who has a continuous ongoing fishless cycle thread - its pinned) usually says not to worry too much about pH - unless I guess you are at extremes, but 6 does seem quite low to me. A water change isnt going to hurt.

Unless you had an under gravel filter in your other tank, then the amount of bacteria living in your gravel will be limited - the bacteria need a constant supply of ammonia and well oxygenated water - as you get in your filter.
It may be possible that the bacteria you had in the gravel that you moved over helped to process the first lot of ammonia, but it has since died off and/or hasn't transferred to the filter in sufficient numbers to continue treating that quickly.

 

[Kevstir]

thanks for your help m8

yeah its an under gravel filter in the other tank , i also had one of the juwel sponges proped up at the power head outlet for a week so that was another extra jump start.

it cant do a lot of harm trying a water change , i see what the amonia reading is tonight when i get into before i try anything hopefully it will be down lol

thanks again

Kev

 

[scubadoo]

It looks to me like you're doing everything the right way.

Like you say, its only the pH that seems to outside normal parameters.

The hardest part of a fishless cycle though is waiting for things that you cant see to happen.