Poorly Guppy

[Lady Moogie]

Tank size: 30L
pH: 7.8
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 5
tank temp: 26°c

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
S-shaped spine (looking from above)
Fin clamping
Dulled colours
White string poo
Not socialising/hiding away somewhat
Still has appetite, no difficulty breathing
All other guppies absolutely fine

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
10l weekly, conditioned with Prime

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
None

Tank inhabitants:
6 male guppies approx 6 months old
10 young adult cherry shrimp, ~8 juveniles (up to 1cm)

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
8 juvenile cherries moved from main tank (didn't know they were in there!) to this tank last Sunday.
Fake moss decoration added on Thursday to help baby shrimp hide!

Exposure to chemicals:
None (unless the label from the new ornament used bad glue?)

Digital photo (include if possible):
Will try to take one later




Not sure quite what to do, he seems pretty sickly. The tank is primarily for the shrimps so I don't want to medicate and kill them, but I don't want the fish to suffer. Don't know what might have brought this on, he's been a bit of a loner for the last week or so but I thought maybe he was being bullied. Only noticed the clamping and bent spine over the last couple of days. I've got some Interpet #9 at hand, but not sure it'll help and am concerned it may harm the young shrimp.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Lady Moogie]

Today his belly is looking sunken and he is struggling to swim.
I guess I'll have to euthanise him if I don't have any options on what else I can do for him

Poor Peter. He was one of my two faves.

 

[Lady Moogie]

Well, the other guppies started 'picking' at Peter. They're usually quite good at telling when a fish is not long for this world.
I had to finish Peter off earlier today, did it as humanely as I could, knocking him out with clove oil first and then decapitation/brain dustruction.
Bless his poor little self.

R.I.P. Peter. I'll miss your happy little face.

 

[Jjsmith46]

Why poison him and butcher it,just use ice cold water its quick and less messy than cutting a fish up.

 

[Lady Moogie]

It sounds horrible I know, but I followed the advice on the FAQ here:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/8031-euthanasia-of-fish/

Apparently cold water is cruel and painful for the fish. Knocking him out with clove oil (which they can recover from it placed back in fresh water, it only numbs them like it numbs pain in humans, eg toothache etc) meant that he definately didn't feel a thing when I severed his spine. The guide also says to destroy the brain to prevent hypoxia, so that's what I did.

 

[Athena]

It sounds horrible I know, but I followed the advice on the FAQ here:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/8031-euthanasia-of-fish/

Apparently cold water is cruel and painful for the fish. Knocking him out with clove oil (which they can recover from it placed back in fresh water, it only numbs them like it numbs pain in humans, eg toothache etc) meant that he definately didn't feel a thing when I severed his spine. The guide also says to destroy the brain to prevent hypoxia, so that's what I did.

Possibly a slight misunderstanding somewhere along the way so I just wanted to point out that if you have already decapitated the fish then there's no need to destroy the brain. Hypoxia is the state of lack of oxygen to the brain (which the clove oil causes - putting them into a state of unconciousness). But once a fish is dead (which it most surely would be if decapitated!) then lack of oxygen to the brain and possible re-awakening is not an issue to worry about.

I think what the guide on here means is that if you use clove oil to euthanise, you must then either destroy the brain (by hitting it with something heavy) to prevent the fish from "waking up" (e.g. someone may use the clove oil, think the fish is dead and flush it down the loo - the fish then revives and continues to die from his original illness or injury and therefore suffers) OR decapitate the head entirely.

Personally, I don't use the above methods - and having read much on the subject I don't feel there is enough supporting evidence to say one way is better than another so it's down to a matter of conscience and common sense. So long as we're not being stupid and irresponsible about it, like simply taking a sick fish from the tank and flushing it down the loo or leaving it out in the air to suffocate etc then all's good.

I have found that putting lots of ice cubes in a bowl of water will euthanise a fish within seconds. The way I see it is that prior to euthanising, the fish is obviously in a lot of pain already and suffering from whatever it is that is so bad that we have to take steps to end their life - so a few seconds further of pain to end a long-drawn out miserable death, in my mind is justified.

Yes, I know it's a controversial subject and I don't want to get into any disagreements on here over it as it's all been said many times before. We all have to make choices and decisions that we can personally live with. I would physically vomit if I had to smash my beloved fish or cut their head off - so I "take my hat off" to those of you who are able to do this and wish that I wasn't so squeamish.

There are plenty of us that use the ice cube method (whether they are brave enough to admit is another thing LOL). Even my LFS uses this method.

Ether way, it's an upsetting task to do...

Athena

 

[Lady Moogie]

I thought it seemed strange to have to destroy the brain after decapitating, but the guide said:

2. Decapitation- In many cases, especially with tropical fish this method is quick, clean and easy.
With the aid of a scalpel, or a sharp knife or even a pair of very sharp scissors this job can be carried out with ease. Lay the fish on a flat surface, prevent it from escaping and with one quick motion, slice its head from its body. The body may still wriggle; this is acceptable, as it is just a nerve reaction. The brain will feel no pain. To prevent HYPOXIA, you must destroy the brain as soon as the fish has been decapitated. Simply simply holding the head and penetrating the brain with a sharp instrument does this. This may sound barbaric, but it is humane.

so I went with that.

I certainly didn't enjoy the 'surgery' but I guess as I'm an angler (so quite used to koshing fish over the head, as well as having to head/gut them) perhaps it wasn't so bad for me. I don't think I could do it to one of our bigger or 'special' fish (don't get me wrong, we love them all - but everyone has their faves, right?) but with a little guppy it wasn't too bad.

Anyway, I'm not here to debate it all. I just felt the need to defend my actions having been essentially called a butcher as regards one of my beloved pets. I'll shut up now for fear of clogging up this forum with unncessary posts

All other guppies still looking fine by the way, although I think Nathan is wondering what happened to Peter