Please Help?

[Le Sorcier]

Hi all,

Any help would be greatly appreciated in advance.

In summary,

Bought a tank(33x30x37cm) about 7 US Gallons?

Got an inner filter and 55 watt heater, lighting, some plants and bogwood.

The shop I bought the tank from said I had to leave the tank on for "4-6 weeks before adding fish". They gave me "Aquasafe" to dechlorinate the water first.

After leaving the tank on for a couple of days and reading up a bit on here I realised this wasn't doing anything as there was nothing really in the water yet.

So, I went to a "specialist" fish shop and asked if I needed to "cycle" the tank. He basically told me this was an old fashioned and unnecessary practice and gave me "API Stress Zyme" (biological filtration booster) and this would do the job. He said I could put a couple of hardy fish in straight away and maybe add to the tank week by week.

I picked out 2 Platys they have now been in the tank for 2 days now. One of them seems to be ok and swims around quite happily, however the other one seems to spend a fair bit of time hiding and laying on the bottom of the tank. Is this normal? I telephoned the shop and they said that it might just be shock after being moved.

I think the subdued one is a sunset fire wag? He does have his moments and races around for a while and maybe he is behaving normally, I don't know? I have noticed sometimes that when he is still near the gravel he is at a slight angle. A bit like this /

At the moment I plan to do a water change tomorrow and test the levels again (they were ok yesterday).

I was going to do a 25% change every 3/4 days to begin with. Is this enough? I would assume I should add the "aquasafe" to the new water before it goes in the tank?

One last question? Should I clean the filter sponge in the siphoned tank water at every 25% change? Or more infrequently?

I feel I may have made a mistake putting the platys in and should have waited, but he advised me that this was not needed. I don't want to lose the fish so, once again, any help would be great.

Many thanks

 

[pauly]

You're just doing a "with fish cycle" as opposed to the "fishless cycle". Keep an eye on your water stats and your fish should be ok. Test it everyday and when Ammonia is above 0.5ppm do a 20% water change. You only need to clean the filter once a fortnight or so.

However, if you're so concerned about your fish, you should return them and start a fishless cycle following the advice from the sticky thread on this forum.

Paul.

 

[littlest]

sorry to tell you this, but it was a mistake to add the fish.
You should have done a fishless cycle, this is by far the best way to go, but I understand you were given some conflicting advice.

I assume you read up on cycling and understand the process? The Stress Zyme you bought unfortunately won't make much or any difference. It doesn't actually contain the nitrifying bacteria you need to process ammonia.

The platy lying on the floor and hiding is not normal behaviour. Fish often hide when first added, but this shouldn't last too long and they shouldn't be lying on the floor.

Are you testing for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH? If so, what are the results? also, are you using liquid tests or strips? Liquid tests are much more accurate and generally recommended.
you should be testing very regualarly. At least twice a day for ammonia and nitrite. You can reduce frequency of testing when things become more stable.

Unfortunately it's not really possible to plan how many and how much water changes you do. The results of the above tests (ammonia and nitrite) will dictate when you should do water changes. You want ammonia and nitrite to be under 0.25. This may be quite difficult and will probably involve a lot of water changes. Although you only have two fish, 7gallons is a small tank so ammonia will build up quickly.

If you have access to any mature tanks get some mature filter media and put in your filter (this will speed things up a hell of a lot).

you will be doing water changes a lot, so don't clean the filter media every time. At the moment it will probably be best to leave it alone. Generally once a month is often enough to clean in tank water, or whever you notice the filter flow is getting weaker.

good luck

 

[Le Sorcier]

Thanks Paul,

He is currently hiding behind a small rock while the other one is swimming about. Is this normal? Could he be taking longer to acclimatise to his new surroundings? Is it normal for them to stay near the bottom?

Apologies for firing off a list of questions.

 

[backtotropical]

Hi,

Unfortunately bad advice from LFSs is all too common.

You are correct that just leaving the tank to stand for 4 - 6 weeks would do nothing. You would have to add ammonia or something which will break down to produce ammonia (eg. fish food) for the cycle to start.

I'd like 5 minutes with the guy who says cycling is old fashioned. It is an essential part of keeping a successful fish tank. What he has advised you to do is a "fish-in cycle". You've probably read about it on here.

If you only have 2 platys so far, i strongly advise you to take them back to the shop and do a "fishless cycle". (There is a link to a thread about fishless cycling in my signature below). This will save you a lot of effort and heartache, and will save your platys from suffering ammonia poisoning.

Do you have a test kit? If not, you need to buy one. You need to be able to test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH to give you any chance of success. If you do have one, please post your test results as this will help us to help you. I would say i'm 99% sure that the abnormal behaviour of your fish is not down to shock from being moved, but instead it's reaction to the rising ammonia in your tank.

My advice is to do a 25% water change now, and yes you do add dechlorinator to the fresh water before it goes into the tank. Do the same again tomorrow and every day until you get your test kit, then post again and we can review the situation.

I wouldn't advise you to clean the filter sponge at all just now, unless it's so dirty that it reduces flow through the filter. Then was it lightly in tank water, not tap water (very important).

Hope this helps. Keep us updated.

Backtotropical

 

[**sarahp**]

Hi welcome to the forum

I wont add anything to what has already been said, I was just wondering where abouts you were based - there may be a member on here who could help you with mature filter media, it would really help your tank and fishes. There is a sticky somewhere called 'Members wiling to donate mature filter media' its about 12 pages long (!!!) but have a look on there

 

[backtotropical]

Here is the link.

 

[Le Sorcier]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all your help so far. My subdued Platy seems to have picked up a lot today and has been swimming quite happily with the other one. Fingers crossed he will be ok.

I do have test kits (strips not liquid. I asked the guy what were the best ones and he gave me a JBL easy test 5 in 1, and some API Ammonia test strips).

I also asked him if I could have Clown Loach in my tank? He said yes, but wait about another 6-8 weeks. However I went to another place today and asked the guy there, and he said I shouldn't, as even though they are slow growing, they would be too big for it. Beginning to think this first guy was just telling me anything now. And I thought his place would give better advice as it is purely a specialist outlet, and not, for instance a local garden centre etc.


Anyway, back to my tank. I did a test tonight and the results were....

NO3 = 25mg/l
NO2 = 0,5 mg/l
GH = >21*d
KH = 3*d
PH = 7.6

It was my first go at reading these so they may not be 100% right. I did a 25% water change straight after that so I will test again tomorrow and re post my results.

If there are more accurate test kits around which one should I go for?

Littlest,

You say the Stress Zyme does nothing really. Shall I stop adding it? Will my tank eventually fully cycle with just the 2 Platys? I assume it would be a bad idea to add a couple more until my tank is cycled?

Would it help my fish a lot if I could get hold of some mature filter media? Not even sure wha it is exactly? Does it replace the sponge in my current filter or do I add it?

Thanks again in advance.

 

[littlest]

The stress zyme wouldn't hurt I don't think. It just might not make any difference. If you have already I doubt it would hurt, but don't bother buying anymore if you run out.

You shouldn't add any fish until you are cycled. The tank will cycle with the 2 platys, but it won't be able to deal with a lot of waste (only the amount two platys produces). That said, bacteria multiplys quickly (I think it doubles in 12 hours, but it could be 24 hours). So if you get your tank cycled, then add one or two more fish, there may be a bump in the cycle (ammonia/nitrite may go over 0 temporarily) but within a day or so it should be good again. Obviously when I say one or two fish, I mean small fish similar to platys. Some fish create a lot of waste (such as goldfish) and your tank wouldn't cope so well with that if at all.

Adding mature media would help alot yes. Mature media is basically media (foam/ceramic media etc) from an established, cycled tank. It already contains the beneficial bacteria needed to process ammonia and nitrite, so putting it in your filter means you have instant bacteria. You can instantly cycle a tank like this if you have enough mature media. If you have access to any, definately put it in your filter. If you can get enough, simply replace the media already in your filter. If you can't get much, just add it in with your foam, and the bacteria will multiply onto your foam too. (there's a sticky link at the top of this page showing members willing to donate mature media)

I would say a definate no to the clown loach in a 7gallon tank.

According to your test results, your nitrite is a little high. Preferably keep it under 0.25. I see you did a water change though.

You didn't post results for ammonia though, what's that level?

Unfortunately strips aren't as good as liquid tests. I've never used them myself but I've heard bad things about them, so you should consider getting some liquid tests instead if you can afford to. API does liquid tests also, and sell a Master Test Kit which includes ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph and nitrate (all the most important ones).

 

[Musho3210]

stress zyme does do something, just not the something you want it to do... It contains some sort of bacteria or something, just not the one you want lol. Anyway i wouldnt trust bacteria that smells like grape juice....

 

[Le Sorcier]

Thanks again,

Forget to post my Ammonia results. They were 0 anyway.

Sadly I got up this morning and one of the Platys had died. It was the other one as well. Not the one I was originally concerned about.



Just wish I HAD waited now. The amount of conflicting info out there is staggering IMO. I stood in a shop yesterday looking at Fish books. One of them said that immersing a sick/dying fish in chilled water was an acceptable form of euthanasia. The other book said this was a defintie no-no as it was still cruel to the fish.

What chance has a beginner got?

I wonder how many people just buy a few fish, they die and then give up?

 

[vinylman]

Just wish I HAD waited now. The amount of conflicting info out there is staggering IMO. I stood in a shop yesterday looking at Fish books. One of them said that immersing a sick/dying fish in chilled water was an acceptable form of euthanasia. The other book said this was a defintie no-no as it was still cruel to the fish.

What chance has a beginner got?

I wonder how many people just buy a few fish, they die and then give up?

Far too many, mainly due to many LFS believing that cycling a tank is old-fashioned. Sorry for your loss, but now is the ideal time to return your Platy to the shop. Just spend some time reading the pinned threads on cycling etc., on this site. I know the prospect of looking at a tank without fish for a few weeks can seem interminable, but it really does make everything so much easier. It's always useful for a newcomer to the hobby to get used to the idea that they're keeping WATER rather than fish. If you get the water right and have access to healthy fish, you really shouldn't have any health problems. Don't let the shop tell you that you need ''a bottle of this, and this, and this'' because when your cycle is completed, all you should need to add to the tank is fresh, dechlorinated water, that's all. Just spend some time reading pinned threads here and don't rush. When you finally add fish to your cycled tank, you'll enjoy them so much more. You want fish to THRIVE, not just survive.

 

[Le Sorcier]

Thanks vinylman,

As it stands now my Ammonia is still at 0 and NO2 and NO3 are 0 and 25. (Been doing 25% changes every day).

If I keep my 1 remaining Platy until the tank is cycled would it take a lot longer to complete the process?

 

[Underwurlde]

If I keep my 1 remaining Platy until the tank is cycled would it take a lot longer to complete the process?

yes, because you are constantly removing 25% of the water and hence 25% of the food for the bacteria in the filters. You have to do this though, to protect the fish from the ammonia. Catch-22.

Also to bear in mind, is that then filter will mature but only to the levels of the ammonia produced by 1 fish - don't assume that when your filter does mature, that this is a go-go to fill the tank full of sardines!

Fishless cycling is new-fashioned, not old!

Andy

 

[vinylman]

Fishless cycling is new-fashioned, not old!Andy

I know, I know......by the time the words got from my brain to the keyboard something went wrong somewhere. I usually switch my brain off at work. Don't need it when I'm there.

Thanks vinylman,As it stands now my Ammonia is still at 0 and NO2 and NO3 are 0 and 25. (Been doing 25% changes every day).If I keep my 1 remaining Platy until the tank is cycled would it take a lot longer to complete the process?

You're very welcome. If you can rehome the Platy, please do. The longer it's exposed to an uncycled tank, the more gill damage it will suffer; once the gills are burned any damage is irreversible.