Orca Tl450 - Newbie Startup Step By Step Quest

plutosmate

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Quick background :
After reading SH thread (now over 21 pages on his Nano setup), I've been looking at Marine for over 8 months, if'ing and butting over if I should go to Marine.
After running a Tropical setup for 2 years, had no real bad problems, live plants added etc. Marine only seemed the next step.

What i have done so far is, unpacked everything, cleaned inside, took apart the contents of the 4 chambers, which saw the first of my problems. The skimmer would either not skimm or the three remaining chambers would overflow with the default sprinkler in the tank. SO after 1hr of messing and trying, finally got the water levels right and the skimmer is bubbling nicely.

One thing I have noticed over the past 12 hours is the vast amount of bubbles on the back wall, I'm thinking it's from the skimmer.
Did a quick test and my levels are spotless (no nitrates as there is no one in the tank, so salt is added as yet -PH - 6.4, GH - <3'd).

The layout of the chambers at the moment is 2 x sponges wrapped around the UV light + pump, next is the skimmer, 3rd chamber is the bioballs + heater finally the last one is 2 x noodle packs and an pump. Should I keep the sponges ? should the noodles go ?
I'm looking to chuck the salt in at the weekend then live rock to follow 2 days later.

Any suggestions would be greatly received.
 
not familiar with the tank or it's layou I'm afraid

is the tank newly filled with water?
 
You can find those answers in my thread. No noodles...no sponges...no bioballs.....it's IN there. lol. SH

:hi:
 
With reference to the water, I filled it up with RO water + Aqua clear.
I was worried about the crack that SH mentioned in his thread. Still having loads of grief with the builin skimmer. If I touch / move the sponges in the first chamber then the skimmer either stops working of the last two chamber overflow (cant win).

SH - Thanks for your reply, I'll remove the sponges and replace with media bags filled with live rubble, I'll also chick some in the 3rd chamber where the heater is.

Micro bubbles - should I put a thin sponge at the start of the spray bar ?
 
Cool another Orca 450l owner :)

While not wanting to "pimp" my own journal take a look at the nano journal in my signature (this is an orca 450l) as I mentioned a lot of the pros and cons for this tank and think I covered most of what I did to get started. There are much prettier tanks on here but I think mine shows that you can keep a nice nano as a beginner as long as you are willing to put the effort into it.

Hopefully the below is helpful :) if you have any questions just ask.

Setting up the tank:
*Consider getting one of the other cabinets that are available for this sized tank and the standard one gives you nowhere to hide/store equipment.
*Set the tank up in a suitable location and make sure it is level.
*Remove the bio-balls.
*Remove the bio-rings.
*Add LR rubble and/or Phosphate/nitrate removal media to back chambers.
*Sort out the skimmer (see below).
*Replace the fans (You might want to replace the fans with some decent "PC" fans as the ones used in the hood are cheap and get pretty noisy. I haven't got around to doing this yet but it shouldn't be overly complicated (there are only two wires per fan and they just unscrew from the hood).
*Add an extra powerhead to the display (depends on what you are planning to keep. I would recommend a korillia nano in addition to the stock pump and the additional pump in the left hand chamber (see below)).
* Fill with RO water and leave for a day or two with all pumps and heater running, you can cut the air supply off to the skimmer for the moment (Leaving it makes sure it doesn't leak, it is level and to help leech out any chemicals that potentially may be in the tank).
* Empty the tank and refill with RO, turn the pumps and heater back on and wait for it to get up to temperature.
* Once the tank is at the right temperature start adding salt. How much salt depends on what brand you have (and even on what batch it is). As a very rough guide I add about 2 and a half glasses (half pint) of salt to 1 bucket (think its 5l) of water to get 1.025sg. Add the salt gradually and leave it to mix for awhile before checking the SG and adding more salt (if needed). If you overdo it then remove some of the water from the tank and add pure RO water to lower the SG.
* Once the tank is at the right SG leave it again for a day and then double check the SG is still the same.
* If all is good now you can add your live rock and sand. It is best to put the liverock in first (directly on the bottom of the tank) and then add the sand around it. It is easier to remove about 1/3 of the water from the tank (keep the remove water to hand though in a clean container). Once you have your LR and sand how you like it top back up with the salt water you removed and sit back to start "rock watching". :)
* The next step is just waiting for the cycle to finish before you can start stocking and depends on the quality of your LR. You need to monitor for Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I'm going to assume you know about this so will skip this part. If you have questions though just ask :)


Sort out the skimmer - sorry this is going to be a big block of text :( (yes another one :) )
The skimmer and chamber design sucks and a plague of micro bubbles is common in this tank. I actually got so fed up with it I went without a skimmer in the end but as you have not got any stock in yet you have a chance to try and fix it.

The problems with the skimmer are:
*The collect cup does not extend down far enough to "catch" all the bubbles so a lot get swept to the next chamber.
*In the next chamber (the one with the heater) there are holes in the back wall of the tank (where the heater clips in). A lot of the micro bubbles escape from here.
*In the left hand chamber there is not a great deal of water flow and the middle chambers tend to just overflow over the top rather than under the dividers (the bubbles obviously rise to the surface so just overflow into the tank).
*The "air tube" gets kinked under the foam so make sure it is pulled up straight with no kinks in it (You can have it running out of the side of the tank under the cable holder).
*Last thing is that you currently have nothing in the tank to skim which makes the problem even worse.

Fixing these problems
You will need:
Superglue, Clear acrylic sheet or other reefsafe plastic (4mm will do, doesn't need to be thick stuff), something to cut the acrylic with, Marine putty/epoxy, Extra Pump with a 16mm output (I use a Newjet 400 pump), some 16mm tube (standard stuff used on most canister filters).

Increasing water flow through back chambers:
1) Remove the foam block from the right hand chamber and cut it in half.
2) Put half back in the right hand chamber and half in the left hand chamber (these need to be taken out and cleaned on a regular basis, ie once a week).
3) Rest your extra pump in the left hand chamber with the 16mm tube attached. You now have two options:

A) Put the tube output through the hole next to the spray bar and use a flow directing nozzle on the end (you can then also remove the spraybar and cover the hole)
B) Attached the output tube to the spraybar and cover the hole next to it.
NOTE: You may not have to completely cover the hole in either case. You will need to experiment with it. The reason for covering (or partially covering) the hole is that with a decent pump in here the water gets pulled through the hole rather than through the back chambers.

If you cover the hole over completely the pump has to pull the water through the back chambers. The problem can then be that the pump pulls to much water through and the water level in the chamber drops too low. You need to adjust it so that it is pulling the most water it can through the back chambers and only just pulling enough through the other hole to stop the water level in the chamber dropping. You need to "fiddle" with it so that the water level is kept just below the dividing walls of the back chamber.

Covering the heater holes:
1) Remove the heater from the tank. You will find that there are two clips which clip into the back wall of the display tank. Unclip these and remove them.
2) The holes that these clip into are where you will get a lot of micro bubbles entering the tank. Mix up some of the marine putty (you can get this at your LFS, it comes in to sticks and you mix equal parts together to make a putty which can set underwater and is reef safe).
3) On the Chamber side of the back wall cover the holes with a small amount of putty.
4) Push the heater clips back into the holes through the putty. Smooth out the edges of the putty on the chamber side to fill in any gaps.
5) Remove any excess putty that is on the display side. Don't worry about leaving some behind in the little slits as it will eventually be covered in coralline algae anyway.

Modifying the skimmer (haven't tried this myself but think it will work):
As mentioned the main problem with the skimmer is that the collection cup sits about 5 inches above the top of the skimmer outlet and there is nothing to guide the bubbles up to the collection cup (so they all get blown into the next chamber). What you need to do is to modify the collection cup so the edges of the bottom of the box overlap the top of the skimmer output.

In theory this then means that the bubbles have nowhere to go except up to the cup and the water can still flow back down and out of the bottom of the chamber.

You will need to basically build 4 "walls" on the bottom of the collection cup from acrylic. These need to be slightly shorter than the edges of the cup so it can fit inside the back chamber. They need to be just long enough to overlap the top of the skimmer (the cylinder in the second chamber from the right) by about 1 inch (I would try two inches first and then trim them back depending on how the water flows). You can use superglue to stick the walls together and to the bottom of the collection cup.

This should take care of most of the micro bubble problems. It might sound like a lot of hassle but it can all be done in less than an hour. The other things to note is at the moment your water has nothing to skim (so there will be more micro bubbles) and it has just been filled (so more dissolved gasses then once it has settled = more bubbles). Even after you have done all the above it might still have microbubble issues until the tank is stocked and the skimmer has "broken in".
 
Barney,
Thanks for your reply......kinda gulped at the thought of messing with the skimmer, but I might give that a try.
Spoke to my local marine shop where I got the tank from this morning, kinda has a argument over the phone, I mentioned about removing the noodles and sponges and replacing with live rubble in media bags, he kinda went off on one and told my I was nuts......"you should keep with teh stock product as thats what comes with it and that is what works"

Bugger him.........With reference to Barney above....I'm going to keep one of the sponges in the first chamber (wrapped around the UV light) then place a bag of LR ontop of it.
The 2nd chamber - skimmer - i'm going to leave this alone for a bit, I do have micro bubbles in the 3rd chamber....but hopefully when the LR in a media bag and is around the heater this problem might go. Boiballs I'm going to give to my kitten, hopefully this will stop her chasing my Angel in the Tropical tank. (I'm sure the Angel teases her every night).
I'm not conviced with the standard water bar in the tank, the four holes do push a small amount of water around the tank.

But so far, DAY 2 - The digial thermastat arrived this morning, even though the heater is set to 27........the digital readout in the fourth chamber reads 28 'C, so I'll drop the heat slightly to get to 27'C.
Double checked all levels today, all 0 or neautal, nothing in there (no salt or LR) I'm just trying to stop the skimmer from chucking micro bubbles in the chambers.

Thanks again for your support, I'll keep on plodding.
 
Hi plutosmate,

I have had my Orca running for just over a month now. Here is what I did with the chambers:

Here is what I have done with the filter media:

Chamber 1: Took out all foam. Cut one piece of foam down to about 1/2 in. tall, put it back in with about 1/2 in. of filter floss on top of it. Much easier to clean/maintain not and shouldn't be a nitrate trap. (Removed the filter floss after 1 week.)

Chamber 2: Left as is.

Chamber 3: Removed bio-balls and replaced with 1 kg LR rubble placed in a filter media bag.

Chamber 4: Removed ceramic noodles and replaced with 1 kg LR rubble placed in a filter media bag. Placed Rowaphos on top.

I started the tank on Jan. 31 with saltwater, 5kg cured LR, 9kg live sand. It took less than a week to cycle. The live rock was excellent.

So far my water stats are great. Nitrates running between 0 and 5, although it's hard to tell which yellow reading the water is closer to....but def. between 0 and 5.

By the way, since I removed most of the sponge in Chamber 1, my Nitrates have been steady at 0.

I have stayed with the stock pumps so far, although I added a Hydor Koralia Nano to increase the flow. Between that and the spray bar pointed upwards to break the water surface up, my flow seems to be good.

Just my 2 newbie cents! :rolleyes:

Have fun!


By the way.......big kudos to xxBarneyxx for the post above. Very good info!!! :good:
 
Barney,
Thanks for your reply......kinda gulped at the thought of messing with the skimmer, but I might give that a try.
Spoke to my local marine shop where I got the tank from this morning, kinda has a argument over the phone, I mentioned about removing the noodles and sponges and replacing with live rubble in media bags, he kinda went off on one and told my I was nuts......"you should keep with teh stock product as thats what comes with it and that is what works"

Bugger him.........With reference to Barney above....I'm going to keep one of the sponges in the first chamber (wrapped around the UV light) then place a bag of LR ontop of it.
The 2nd chamber - skimmer - i'm going to leave this alone for a bit, I do have micro bubbles in the 3rd chamber....but hopefully when the LR in a media bag and is around the heater this problem might go. Boiballs I'm going to give to my kitten, hopefully this will stop her chasing my Angel in the Tropical tank. (I'm sure the Angel teases her every night).
I'm not conviced with the standard water bar in the tank, the four holes do push a small amount of water around the tank.

But so far, DAY 2 - The digial thermastat arrived this morning, even though the heater is set to 27........the digital readout in the fourth chamber reads 28 'C, so I'll drop the heat slightly to get to 27'C.
Double checked all levels today, all 0 or neautal, nothing in there (no salt or LR) I'm just trying to stop the skimmer from chucking micro bubbles in the chambers.

Thanks again for your support, I'll keep on plodding.


I agree with others on here about the supplied filter material. I've taken it all out.
I have 7.5 kilos of live rock although I think that 6 kilos or thereabouts it about right, plus I have some live rubble in the left hand chamber. I updated the skimmer to a WG-308 I got from ebay which just about fits into the chamber if you strip it down to it's bare essentials. This got rid of the microbubble problem without any further modifications.
I have got an additional pump in the left hand chamber (600ltr/hr) which helps the circulation but I took the spray bar off.

I may or may not add a Korolia Nano powerhead into the tank but the circulation seems to be ok at the moment although I'd like a little more flow through the filter so want to upgrade that pump.

Cheers
 
That is a very good idea about cutting down the foam block to about 1/2 inch and using filter floss/wool. Much easier to pull it out and replace it completely then removing the foam block (trying to not squish the peppermint shrimp that often live back there and then putting it back in).

Also a great idea to put the LR rubble in mesh bags as it is then easier to pull it out and quickly gravel vac debris out of the back chamber.
 
Gents, once again, the advice is spot on and greatly recieved.
Day 3, (in the Nano tank house - for all you Big brother fans out there lol)
Just ordered a few more bits and bobs today....filter media bags for the Live rubble/Rock and Rowaphos, 100 ml of Rowaphos, some filter floss and the next exciting bit.....10lbs Caribsea Arag-alive Sand.

Finally sat down with the misses last night and we have the Bimini Pink sand, I'm sorry, yes it's kinda pinkish. The thumb on my head is there as the fish list also found it's way onto my lap during dinner......"I want 2 x clownfish, 1 x blue tang, 1 x cleaning fish" - can you guess the film yet ?

The Refractometer arrive this morning, now this is a cool bit of kit. Once I finish work I'll start playing with it and try out the salt mixtures ready for the weekend filling and live rock.
(I'll keep everyone posted, plus post a few piccys of the new Nano tank rear chambers, manufactored December 2007)
 
couldn't help noticing you plan to put a blue tang in your 58 litre not really a good idea as they get to 12 inches and will end up with stunted growth and life span
 
Thomas,
I must admit I've looked more into the blue tang and it's gunna be too big for a nano tank. Passed the bad news over to the misses and her first comment was "why did you not go bigger then" Now call me daft, but I'm sure it was mentioned that my Marine had to be compact (once again men cant win).

OK.....Day 5, nothing has happened, my supplier of the tank and stand has still not delivered the stand, sand and all the stuff in my last post. So I'm gutted :angry: phoned the supplier and a million and one reasons for the delay. So, just sitting here with an empty tank......watch the bubbles of my skimmer making prity patterns.
Roll on Monday when it arrives ? I wont hold my breath else I'll be as blue at the moon lights. :lol:

To pass the time, a quick question if I may, lights.......My tank has two sets of lights, 2 sets of daylights and the LED moonlights, how long should I leave the lights on during the cycle once the Live Rock is in place ? Are they left on 24/7 to force the process or should I switch on from 8 - 8 then use the moonlights.

Thanks in aadvance
 
Passed the bad news over to the misses and her first comment was "why did you not go bigger then"

That sounds like an request to set up a 12ft tank to me. You should suprise her with one, I'm sure she would be really happy with you if you did :)

With regards to the lights I would just go with the 8-8 schedule.
 
Barney, if I changed the tank now, then I think the SOFA would be my next resting place for a while.
I've spent enough so far, and there still no LR in the tank.
Cheers for your reply on the lenth of time for the lights. Roll on monday.

Next question (to pass the time until the rugby starts) during the cycling (LR & live sand being placed into the tank) during the following 6 - 8 weeks should I do a 10 - 20% water change or should I just keep on topping up with RO water and keep on checking levels etc.

Sorry for the newbie questions but everywhere I look in the forums here, everyone has different thoughts (mainly due to dying LR) but I'd rather try to do it right first time.
 
:hey: Finally my stand, sand media bags, bits and bobs have arrived.......Now the fun can finally begin.
SO...........the update, the tank was emptied after running for 1 week, all the levels stayed the same, the skimmer......is annoying say the least.
No matter how hard I try I cant get the thing to work without the following two chambers to either over flowing or the skimmer chamber not even getting close to the edge of the plastic chamber.

So.........my feeling.........(mixed) I'm not going to tinker as detailed above (not yet anyway) mainly due to the details next.....

I bought enough salt to mix 60 litres.....so chucked half in for now. The recto measure menat reads 1.018......so I'm close. I'm going to leave this for a cpuple of hours then slowly add until I get to the magic number. Just in the last 10 mins the skimmer is actually working, I think it's due to the salt....so I might be lucky yet.

The plan for tomorrow........wake up.....check levels......then oft to the LFS to get some LIVE ROCK :fun: , cant wait......I'm thinking of getting 5KG of live rock and then 1kg of live rubble to put in the chambers at the rear (as mentioned by xxBarneyxx above). Then the fun will begin.
Thanks for everyone's advice so far........hopefully the tips will keep on comming.
 

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