Not New To Hobby But New To Fishless Cycling

[tetraqueen]

I reset up the old filter which had stayed wet but had not been running for a couple of days. I put 100% clean dechlorinated water and the old gravel unclean only washed in old tanks water into the tank.

I tested the PH which is higher than it has been at 7.8 and the Nitrites are (o) the NH3 NH4 (ammonia) kit tested the water as (0) so I am really set up with no fish.

Now to do fishless cycle in this 400litre Rio what do I do?

I am up against the lfs and husband who say my Gouramis who has just survived what the others did not and should start my filter as he will not give of enough ammonia to kill himself in that amount of water.

I have 4 platys and 11 neon tetras with the Gouramis all doing happy in the eleven Gallon.


Tell me guys the right way to do things.

My husband says I could kill them with toxic ammonia that I know nothing about, he's right I admit I know nothing but would like your help.

Please no nasty comments.

It may explain it easier to others.

I cannot argue either way as I have always done both.

Fishless cycles but not what I am now calling with added ammonia.

Then doing a fish cycle as I did both before.

No doubt the english will confuse you but us Scots canny dae wi it ye ken!!!

 

[SJ2K]

Ok I think I understand your situation One point I will make is if the filter has been unplugged for a matter of days, despite the fact the bacteria remained wet the lack of food (ie Ammonia) being drawn through the bacteria could of killed it off all together. Due to this I would suggest doing the usual procedure of a fishless cycle for a week, if the Ammonia is being processed at the correct rate then bung your fish in and away you go, if not, well you've already started your cycle

 

[tetraqueen]

Thanks

 

[rdd1952]

As mentioned, the filter you added that had been in another tank will most likely not have any substantial number of bacteria in it. Keeping it wet is fine but 2 or 3 days without ammonia for food would most likely kill off most of the bacteria. What about the filter media in the 11 gallon tank that the neons, platys and gourami are in? Is it cycled? If so, just move the media over from that tank to the new one and you're cycled at least for those fish.

If that isn't an option, then at least move some media over so that you have seed media to start the cycling process.

 

[tetraqueen]

No go I am afraid as it's an underfground filter and the gravel is also very small compared to my Jewel.
I will try in my best way to explain .

I started fish keeping three- four years ago with my first tank being an aqua one. 680 I think I have since given it to a friend and it was approx I would say 40 litres.

With that tank I got the got a few fish the Neons which cycled the tank as I now know. I waited about three weeks for the tank to run through water changes etc that was all. Then added Neons and used the bottle (seachem)from lfs. Not had fish afore not been on here so did as I was told.
Then I had a few platies and dwarf douramis which did not do well. I wanted peaceful fish so the bala's were added a plec and a couple of clown loaches..

Then I joined this forum..

Having had my aqua one going with all these fish and being told no good overcrowded these fish will grow I bought a Rio 400. I then started my big tank with the media which was helped by a friend to move over. I slowly moved the fish as the water stats were fine and we did get a spike and I did a water change mid week and since then we have had great water stats.

I bought a couple of Bala's and clown loaches from a guy on here and have not had to buy fish for over a year as all was well.

Then I noticed the bars were broken and I wrote to Jewel but no response and a local carpenter said I'll get a couple of bars and fit it so you can rescrew it if it get loose again.

Drilling holes with balas in there no go.

I had only the eleven gallon with one neon and a platy so I bought 10 new little neons and they adore the old neon like she has her brood . I also bought 4 platy's but the old platy died. He was three years plus after all.

I then used the extra external filter that was in with the rio as having so many fish I thought that would need more to go on a tank I bought from ebay that was to home these large fish over night.

I had taken the plec back to the lfs well hubby did and as I cried he left me the bala's and clowns . So the balas, the clowns,my gouramis and a catfish my friend gave me went in this new set up tank with the old filter. The rio was turned of to remove the water but the jumbo filter left in situ.

That Sunday night they all looked okay a bit strange but tightly packed after being in the rio I went to bed and had just fallen sleep to be startled hubby said all my fish were dead or dying. He was in bed looking at ceiling so I dont know what happened I ran down and was in shock.

Platies neon's and gouramis dont mix. I typed in her as hubby removed dead fish. Well I could not watch gouramis die swimming about these dead fish no choice in the eleven with her. She is doing well and not hurt anyone.

The others were very much dead and were buried in the back garden.

Dwarfgouramis got me to readings and the nitrite was up. Balas catfish and clowns need more oxygen but this happened a couple of mins no signs of a fight no signs of red guills etc they were all dead........................................................






A gap cant read above makes me ill!!!











So on Monday the guy fixes the tank and I have to calm down and think.


My plan is to start again so that is where we are now the stats are great but I will need to cycle again.

I have bought a new filter for the 30 gallon tank but unsure about that as the fish all died in there have done 100% water changes and will continue this for a few weeks. Then I need to start it with ammonia.

Meanwhile my plans are to move the gouramis and neons and platty's to the Rio eventually adding corydoras and a couple of bristle nose plecs.

Tetras were also suggested but the Buonas aire tye I like and others I have read on are agressive.

I am reaserching fish but corys are carniverous but told were omnivores so do not know.

Anyway I digress back to doing a fishless cycle so I do not have to do both as I said in a previous post.

Hope this is clearer and you can understand.


Summary ]]
eleven gallon set up over two years with underground gravel filter doing well but overcrowded.

Rio 400 Old dirty filter 100 % new water and old gravel but washed in old tanks water left soaking in it then rinsed.

A secondhand tank now has new filter and new water and dechlorintor in it. New Gravel soaking after being rinsed in dechlorinated water and will be added after next water change. Then I want to do a complete ammonia cycle until this tank is ready.

When rio is ready neons gouramis will move.
The 30 platys will go in]


The underground I will save as much as I can of the filter but will clean tank and then restart with the old gravel and check stats and as Bettas like clean water will leave a couple of days to warm check stats do 50% water change.
next day get that Betta I want.

 

[rdd1952]

One possibility to help seed the new filter is to place some of the gravel from the 11 gallon with the UGF in it. Although there is rarely any appreciable amount of bacteria in the gravel in a tank with a HOB, external or internal filter, there is substantial bacteria in the gravel with a UGF so simply putting some of the gravel in the new filter should help speed the fishless cycling process.

 

[tetraqueen]

Will try that


I am still at a loss about how much Ammonia etc etc


Now its a few days it will take eve longer.


Thinking husband and lfs is right tis easier and if using rain water and many changes the filter will re kick in again soon on the Rio and like you said there is enough ammonia if not bacteria in the underground to start the cycle of the fish there in so crowded accomodation must be in a weeks wee even in 50% h2o changes because its a while since I did the gravel..



Thinking fast. May even get my Betta quicker.

 

[tetraqueen]

I have just done the three tank water stats and they are all doing great as expected really.

But.......... yes the PH is on the higher side at 7.8 and the new tank is nearer 8 I would say and the 11 well that is 7 which is unusual. However I am pleased as neons like it there.

I do not want to use chemicals do you think as it matures this ph will drop or what should I do?

 

[rdd1952]

I am still at a loss about how much Ammonia etc etc

Do you mean how much ammonia to add to do a fishless cycle? If so, most bottled ammonia seems to be about 9.5% solution. In that case, 1ml will raise 5 gallon to 5 ppm. So for a 180L tank (47 gallons), you most likely need about 8ml to get it to the 4 to 5 ange. That allows for some displacement of water by decorations and substrate.

If you are talking about how much ammonia is acceptible, then the answer is 0. While cycling with fish, you will definitely have some ammonia but your goal is to keep it (as well as nitrite) under .25 ppm via water changes.

The pH should be fine. Most fish can easily adapt to a stable pH. What s the pH of your tap water? If it is considerably lower than your tank pH, then it's possible something in the tank as causing it to rise. I definitely wouldn't use any chemicals but would look at running some peat in the filter or adding some bogwood/driftwood to lower it some. Another option is to mix R/O water wth tap water for water changes.