Need Urgent Help

[trojannemo]

hey guys.

i dont know what this is, but i know its got to be bad. in less than 12 hours, two of my rainbows developed what looks like white patches on the body. it's not puss, it's not ich, it's not raised scales. it looks exactly as if they had been doing overnight painting and got some of it on their scales or something.

i've had these two rainbows since september of 2008. i dont want to lose them!!!

what is it and what can I do about it? how did it happen? any information is greatly appreciated!

they are behaving perfectly normal. have great coloration still, swimming happily. not flashing, not lethargic, not bloated. want to eat but i refused to feed them until i know the cause of the white patches...

please help!

 

[WILDER]

Size of tank in gallons or litres.
How many fish and which type.
Water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

Any signs of flicking and rubbing.
Any excess mucas on the gills or body of the fish.
Any redness to the white patches.
Patches that look like the fish has been painted in tip x can be columnaris.

 

[minxfishy]

Gotta say it looks columnaris to me, its exactly how my rainbows looked when I lost a full tank load over a year ago now, but mine was a nasty strain.

What is your water change regime and what are your nitrAtes at, rainbows need IMO 2 x 50% water changes weekly and nitrAtes kept 20ppm or lower if possible, any problem with water quality they are prone to fungus/columnaris.

 

[trojannemo]

thanks for the replies. i do not think it is columnaris. last year i lost 2 rainbows and 2 angels to a tank-wide spread of columnaris brought on by a sick fish I got from a LFS.

the tank is 38 us gallons. i keep a total of 12 fish in there. 8 rainbows and 4 angels, all varying sizes. in the future i know i need to upgrade, and i will, but at their current sizes there is more than enough space.
the tank is filtered with two HOB filters, each big enough for the tank. temperature is maintained by two submersible heaters kept at different ends of the tank at a constant 80F.
i do water changes every sunday...i dont know exact percentage but i would guess about 60% or so.
i dose nutrients for plants daily.
i dont have a reliable test for nitrate, as my API liquid test has always said 0ppm on nitrates

anyways. the scales dont look fungus-y or patchy, or anything like the descriptions of columnaris say online, nor does it match my previous experience.

is there a possibility that it is something else?

 

[minxfishy]

80 is high for rainbows, mine are kept at 76 tops (unless I have to raise for a specific reason and then I would never go above 80 with them).

Are the scales missing? The top pic of the lacustris looks like the patch on his side is missing?

 

[WILDER]

Columnaris has many disguises.
Maracyn one and two.

 

[trojannemo]

i typically kept my water temp. at 76F as well, but after a couple of cases of ICH decided to keep it up at 80F, since my angelfish also appreciate teh temperature. i do not mind lowering it back to 76F if you so advise.

the scales are not missing. the scales are perfectly smooth and even. it looks as if they always had those scales in that color. that's why i'm desperately trying to identify the disease because i've dealt with many diseases but have never seen this...

Wilder, i refuse to dose medication until I am 100% sure of what the problem is, lest the attempt to fix the wrong disease make things worse. based on my research into columnaris after your suggestion, i do not think that's the problem. why do you insist on it? what other symptoms can i look for to verify it's indeed columnaris?

 

[WILDER]

White patches that look like the fish has been painted in white paint is usually columnaris.
Dosn't sound like a parasite involved if there no signs of flicking and rubbing or excess mucas.

Or see a vet.

 

[trojannemo]

ok i will monitor the condition as possible columnaris until this weekend. if it still persists then i'll medicate. i can't obtain the meds before then unfortunately.

i'm thinking this might be something different altogether. not a disease at all. within 7 hours of when i noticed the patches, the m. herbertaxelrodi rainbow (2nd in the above pics) has altogether lost the spots. he looks just as he did before the patches.

the first rainbow has very faint spots now, and i anticipate within the next hours they will be gone altogether.

is this typical of columnaris for the spots to appear within 9 hours and dissappear within 7? the fish continue to behave perfectly normal and look in tip-top shape.

i get so scared

 

[WILDER]

Just try some water changes if the patches are fading.
If they get worse I would medicate.
Good Luck.

 

[minxfishy]

Could they have been calcium deposits?

 

[arobinson1984]

Regarding your API test kit.

For the nitrAte test, have you followed the directions properly? 10 drops from the first bottle, then you need to shake the second bottle for 30 secs (this is important) and add 10 drops, then shake test tube for 1 min.

If these instructions aren't followed then the test result may well not be accurate.

Andy

 

[trojannemo]

Could they have been calcium deposits?

i dont know how those manifest. but would they show up out of nowhere and then dissappear back within hours? in less than 24 hours the patches came, and completely went away. the fish never stopping behaving normally.

Regarding your API test kit.

For the nitrAte test, have you followed the directions properly? 10 drops from the first bottle, then you need to shake the second bottle for 30 secs (this is important) and add 10 drops, then shake test tube for 1 min.

If these instructions aren't followed then the test result may well not be accurate.

Andy

yes i follow instructions. it might simply have been since i had too high lighting and no pressurized CO2 that my plants were bottoming out the nitrates in my tank. that was one of the suggestions made some months back. i honestly haven't tried the test in months. i will try it again and see if now that my system has changed the nitrate kit will measure something...



the fish look back to normal and it seems as if nothing happened so, i guess false alarm

 

[shelaghfishface]

its wednesday and your going to monitor till the weekend?? too long IMO/E , you need to find out what it is today and i would advise following wilders advice, i lost half my tank due to columaris in 3 days, you cant wait that long

 

[WILDER]

How do the fish look today?