minerals in the water… it would seem not all fish need them…

Magnum Man

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I was reading a post the other day, from someone new to the hobby, where this person was using RO water, for a soft water fish tank, and it was recommended, that they add minerals back… I’ve had good luck with nearly all soft water fish, and many plants, for that matter, just using straight RO water, with no added minerals… I’m sure there are fish that do better with minerals, and my well water is rock hard, so I could easily add some, if I thought it was needed, but I’m not seeing any signs ( low colors, etc. ) that my soft water fish are lacking anything in their water… nearly all my soft water tanks have drift wood, and live plants, so I’m sure those add something to the tank water, but as far as actually adding back minerals, I’m not seeing the need for most soft water fish…

do we really need to add minerals back to RO water tanks , for most soft water fish???

if so, what would be the signs that a fish needs more minerals in the water, if it’s thriving in RO water???
 
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I've never used pure RO water, but I see a few people here doing so. Mineral free water is a bit unstable and harder for new aquarists to master. I have soft tap, and like to keep some tanks very low in minerals. I've never been equipped to go with no minerals in added water. When I used to do snow melt and rain mixes to breed softwater fish, I had 140ppm tap and would do a mix to as low as 30ppm for some species.

The RO I had needed a new membrane, and gave me about 15ppm by the time I moved and retired it. That was useful as a flaw!

I look like a water change freak, but I find my soft tap can go off very quickly if I don't stay on it. I choose substrates and rocks carefully to avoid minerals being added. But for new aquarists - I keep a very specific range of softwater loving fish. Do this with guppies, and they'll die.

For a lot of common fish, minerals are essential.

It's all in the kidneys. Fish absorb water, and getting an internal balance is a survival thing. Their kidneys are large, and adapted to certain hardnesses in many species. If they have to adjust, it can shorten their lifespans as it takes a lot of energy. Other species can move from saltwater to fresh - it's a case by case story.

If no diseases or power cuts hit your tank, a cardinal tetra should live between 5 and 10 years. I had a large shoal I purchased go for seven years til a storm took out my heating. I'm only 3 years in with their replacements. Longevity tells you what's up, but it (here's Captain Obvious talking) takes years for you to know.
 
long life seems cumulative, between water, foods, and good and consistent aquarist habits… I know @GaryE … feeds lots of live foods… I’d guess if you did everything right, but fed the cheapest prepared foods, the fish would be just as likely to die early as if you only replace evaporation on the tanks, like we all did back in the 60’s or 70’s
 
RO is not 100% pure water. When I decided I needed to soften my water I went with an RO/DI/ This got me pretty close to pure H2O. Because all of the KH is gone, there is very little to hold up the pH. The result of this is it can drop very low. The DI unit removes Ions. Many of us do not think about Ions but we all deal with them if we have a successful tank.

An ion is an atom or molecule with a net electric charge due to the loss or gain of one or more valence electrons. Because the number of electrons no longer equals the number of protons, ions are charged particles. They are crucial for chemical bonding, electrical conductivity, and biological processes.

While a decent RO system can remove between 95% and 99% of impurities etc. and RO/DI system is basically 100%. The quality of the RO membrane is what determines how many things and RO unit can remove. Some membrane can remove nitrate but lesser quality ,membrane may not do so. An RO unit will not help with ammonia or nitrite but other things which it misses may be captured by carbon. My initial unit was three modules carbon-->RO membrane-->DI resin. This gave me pr pretty pure water. While RO water is OK for drinking, DI water is not.

I mixed my RO/DI water with my tap water. Ultimately,when I decided to get a new unit rather than replace modules again I went with a 4 stage which added a sediment filter in fron ot the carbon.

Then there is this:
A Reverse Osmosis (RO) system effectively removes nitrifying bacteria and other microorganisms from water. RO membranes have tiny pores (roughly 0.0001 microns) much smaller than bacteria, which are typically 0.2 microns or larger, trapping them and preventing them from passing into the treated water.
What a DI module will do is to remove both ammonia as ammonium and nitrite from water.

What RO is best at removing is a lot of what contributes to TDS but not everything that does so. And then the quality of the specific RO membrane one has determines how much it can catch. This can mean some of what the palnts and fish need will not be removed.

Also, it makes a difference if one is panting mostly or all aquatic plants or if there are a decent number of land plants whose roots are in the water. These plants take things from the air. They also use ammonium and nitrate. So what quality RO membrane one has can matter in this respect. Plus land plants have access to CO2 which is greater in the air than the water. Land plants ned to support themselves so have sturdier stems, Aquatic plants tend to have a tendency to float and this helps them to get taller without needed massive stem support to preven falling over.

I did not plant my altum tank becase of how stained my water was. This tends to reduce light levels in water. I have seen a number of vids of altums in the wil. Most of the plants one sees are land plants which have become submerged due to the rising levels of the rivers durning the rainy season and how rivers overflow their banks. What I do see in the vid is algae.

Lets not forget that our fish, inverts and fish food are putting things into the water. Also some folks add ferts for their plants. RO is not removing any of these things.

As for how long fish might live in tanks compared to in the wild is a bit difficult to access. in our tanks we can feed quality nutrician, we can successfully treat fish for a lot of things which would likely kill them in the wild. And then we ccan choose the inhabitants of our tanks and most uf us choose not to stock those fish likely to eat our other stock. And if we do decent maintenance etc. almost any species of fishthe fish should have a longer average lifespan in a healthy tank than it will in the wild. However, the knowledge to choose the right foods, to prevent most diseases and poor conditions are up to us.

How long a species may live in the wild may not even be known. We may not even be aware of that number when it is known. For most of us we have no idea if the fish we keep are living longer than they would in the wild. The one thing with which we must contend is the quality of the fish we acquire. For the most part we rely on sources of fish whose history we will never know.
 
I don't need RODI so I ditched the post filter and put in an extra carbon post filter. Its also the water I drink and use for my coffee. Typically I replace the membrane when I can't get TDS below 20, its about 5 with a new membrane and well over 400 out of the tap. My softwater fish are fine with no additives. Yes my cardinals do live 5-10 years and possibly longer, despite the fact that I never feed live food.
 
a curious question on longevity, as long as we landed here for a minute… so soft water fish are often held in high mineral water, for a period of time “Dan’s” openly admits this… any local pet store or holding facility not using RO around here, is going to have hard water… curious how 3 months ( for example ) of hard water exposure would shorten a fish’s life…
 
Soft water fish are very efficient at extracting minerals from the water and retaining them. They have no release mechanism for excess so this builds up in their organs which eventually results in organ failure. As this is exactly what happens with old age I used to think it normal that my cardinals only lived 12-24 months when I kept them in my rock hard tap water. They seemed perfectly healthy until they "got old and died".

As to what effect 3 months may or may not have - I have no idea, but you are subjecting them to 2 significant parameter changes within 3 months.
 
Not sure if it was my post (my betta was losing colour) but if it was I just wanted to clarify that I do remineralise my RO water as there was some confusion on my original post. If it wasn't my post then ignore me!
 
We've debated this one, and have no answer. Since rainforest fish and their eggs are evolved to grab every last mineral they can get from their impoverished waters, then you'd assume there would be an overload. They need some minerals, for sure, but they aim for a balance inside and outside the body.
That's what kills hardwater fish from mineral rich environments if you put them in very soft water - they can't hold on to the minerals they need to function. Softwater fish in high mineral content live longer than that, but it has to be a stress on their systems. Is 3 or 4 months fatal? That might vary by species.

Are the fish from that seller keeling over quickly or not? That would be something to know. The jury's out.
 
I have used pure R/O water on fish with no ill effects . When I first got my R/O unit in 2019 and not knowing better that’s what I did . During that period I quickly became the proud owner of well over a hundred Aplocheilus lineatus Golden Wonder Killifish .
 

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