Mangrove Plants In Aquarium?

[Tetradon Girl]

I would like to set up a mangrove style aquarium and was thinking about using live mangrove plants.

Does anyone have any experience growing them?

How fast do they grow, what lighting do they require, should I purchase seed pods or growing plants?

Thank you

 

[nmonks]

Mangroves are trees. They grow extremely slowly. They need huge amounts of light, similar to corals.

Always buy pods, never plantlets. Once they have sprouted leaves they frequently fail to adapt to changes in environmental conditions, e.g., when moved from one tank to another. Pods travel fine; it's what they evolved to do!

Cheers, Neale

 

[WoodenChair]

Mangroves are trees. They grow extremely slowly. They need huge amounts of light, similar to corals.

Always buy pods, never plantlets. Once they have sprouted leaves they frequently fail to adapt to changes in environmental conditions, e.g., when moved from one tank to another. Pods travel fine; it's what they evolved to do!

Cheers, Neale

1: Ive started from pod and plantlet and never had trouble...
2: BUT, i knew ahead of time the water quality of the plantlet (FW BW SW)
3: They grew moderately under some simple tube florescent not entirely slow by any means just not vigorous and looks scrawny
4: BUT, they went bananas when given the proper light.



Mangroves are the best filters ive ever used, I often use java moss in my refugiums
(Space does become an issue even to a well pruned mangrove)
They process bio matter in the tank like (insert good metaphore here)


A few more things we would need to know to further help you is.

What kind of water are you putting them in?
Mangrove trees have a sort of "pump" if you will, that allows them to expel the salt from the water that they are in, they dont process it so your salinity doesn't actually drop. This pump is heavily magnesium driven, and the plants can actually suffer if they aren't getting a proper supply of magnesium. This problem is almost non existent in fresh water applications. Note the usage of the word "almost".

Are you putting them into a tank or into a refugium sump?

This next part is simply a matter of efficiency and forward thought. When planted in a tank, remember, they are indeed trees, awesome trees that are miraculous bio filters, that have the ability to grow tens of feet. and so the conundrum begins. IF your putting them in your main tank, you might want to consider a bank of Metal Halide high output suspended growing fixtures because youll need to give light to your plants and still have enough light to make it the extra 2 foot gap to the top of the tank then make it all the way to the bottom so that your fish dont suffer. Sorry but even T5 tubes are going to have trouble working this out for you, when trying to bridge the gap between an aquarium and garden. Its doable, and beautiful and mangroves when they finally make it out of your water will start pumping O2 into your home!

I love this picture because it best describes mangroves in an open aquarium, high mounted super high output lights are non negotiable, I live for DIY and penny pinching but let me tell you, lighting like that is not cheap. Ive seen people try high output LED rigs and diy T5 tubing and even tried alot of it myself. These mangroves just love their light. Reefers use MH SHO's as well, so as was said "just like coral".


Yes, i just got carried away with lighting and aquarium housing. But now lets discuss refugium housing. Refugium housing is a less pretty but far easier. For one you can put them in pretty constricted space and they will do their thing, im not saying jam 30 of em into a 5 gallon space lol. but for refugium use 1 plant should get about 3x3sq in of floor space, and thats just me being polite. heres how some other people do theirs

(it should be noted these are growing under standard ambient room light)

Reef keepers will sometimes have far more then what you see here, and it should be stated that if your putting them into a fuge that you either split a stream of water direct from tank to them, or have the water go to the mangroves first, then wet dry and protien skimmer so on and so forth whatever you decide to use.

A final point

My friend and i have been working on this idea for some time, trying to get the best rooting system and flow over the mangroves. and as its been long since broken down since my move from hovel to hovel lol, i will draw you a awful picture.
(10 minute time elapse montage of me at a drawing board with strait edges an im wearing a monocle... of course.

We have tried egg crate slanted platform with no actual sand substrate what so ever, and noticed NO CHANGE in growth pattern, just an impossibility to separate them from the crate platform once they take hold.

Also, you should research the different types of mangrove trees just for your own knowledge but reds are the most commonly used.



Alright then, im sure i missed some things, over-engineered others. And maybe got some things good old fashioned WRONG. This is why you research on your own!

Either way, i hope this helped you out in your mangrove ventures.

 

[Tetradon Girl]

Thank you!

I am planning on putting them in the aquarium, its open top and gets light from a south west facing window over the left side of the tank in the afternoon.

Although I also have about 70 watts of light from standard T8's. Its a brackish setup SG about 1.015.

I was going to arrange them on the side of the tank that gets the sunlight from the window?

Do you think this will be OK?

 

[WoodenChair]

1: I cant endorse ever using natural light near a tank of any kind. windowless rooms are best for aquariums
2: I cant endorse anything under 300 watts.

Alright here we go.


On the aquarium business end of things we don't get to see much of the physical effects light has on our plants, they are either green and growing well, or garbage. Trees and other plants that make it above their rooting line which in this case is the water line will IMMEDIATELY grow towards the strongest light source. Keep in mind this is a tree. Not a bean stalk or tomato plant or even a flower. all of which can change their growth direction noticeably each hour. Over the years a mangrove can go in one direction so seriously that it will literally decide that this clear wall here... doesn't need to be here anymore and over time push its way through and you might not notice till that day 2 years from now when it finally puts that LAST bit of pressure on that wall and crrrrrrick. and gallon after gallon leak out on the floor. I have had plants do some PRETTY crazy things on me, ive watched two plants form a helix to hold each other up. Plants will do what they need to. So Tube lights are awful awful awful choices for tanks like this unless you have something like 6 - 8 of them spread out over the entire top of the tank for blanket coverage, and even then T8 tubes 24 inches off the top of a tank 21 inches deep = four feet of spread. i trust 600 watt Metal Halides to EFFECTIVELY cover a space 3 ft x 3ft square. And even then you have to play with distance because of the fall off of thrown lumens. Normally i prefer to use tubed shades to diminish heat in the grow room but for your purpose of mass coverage of both tank and plant they have this nifty shade type out there called a "vertizontal"

i used this SAME one for my Shore tank and had astounding results, but EVEN THEN using a light meter was STILL short of lumens at the bottom of the tank, the refraction properties of water just KILL how far light gets effectively thrown. its why the industry standard for tanks has the lights mere inches above the surface of the water.

The price may seem a little steep on paper but a comparable aquarium light that would handle a 48inch square tank would NOT be able to throw light as wide as this one, and it would likely run you 1200 dollars and upwards. where as with this you can save that extra cash, and get some moonlighting, extra bulbs and STILL make rent.

This is an example of a "foot candle chat" to give you an EXAMPLE of what you need to look for to match whatever light you use. This happens to match a uhh... different type of light i use. High pressure sodium bulbs burn differently so dont take this data as your data, you will need to find a chart that matches the light you choose. be prepaired to google.

This is a site you can use if you get savvy enough with the math surrounding a bulb you can figure all your own business out
http/www.intl-lighttech.com/library/calculators



And that is the site to the light/canopy/ballast itself.
http/www.growlights.net/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=243


Water is fine, they will grow in anything, it should be noted they enjoy very warm water the best and are often shipped on heat packs all my tanks sit at just about 79 - 81 but ive not had trouble growing anywhere between 74 - 85.


-Chairman Wood

 

[nmonks]

Don't agree with this I'm afraid. Natural light can be superb for certain tanks, e.g., those rearing juvenile fish and shrimps that consume algae. Under such conditions the fish are able to feed continuously, resulting in healthy, happy fish (or shrimps) ready to sell or give away. The issue is water temperature, not light, and provided the tank receives direct sunlight for just a few hours, so water temperature doesn't exceed 28-30 C, the temperature variations will not be enough to harm tropical fish.

In my "windowsill tanks" I've found that many plants, such as Hygrophila species, go bananas, growing a good 60 cm above the waterline and producing masses of flowers. So it all depends on what you're after. Mangroves have been grown as pot plants in conservatories, so I have absolutely no doubt that you could grow them in a windowsill tank, provided the room was heated sufficiently and it received enough sunlight (day length in winter may be an issue in the UK compared with, say, Australia or the southern states of the US). Whether such a tank would be ideal for keeping fish is another question, but I'm quite sure it's possible.

Cheers, Neale

1: I cant endorse ever using natural light near a tank of any kind. windowless rooms are best for aquariums

 

[WoodenChair]

I wont contest that.

I guess it has its purposes. Im just so used to have absolute control over indoor grow room that i take that over with me to my aquaria.

Your absolutely right in the algae respect, i didn't even think of it. What i did think about was the temperature. But i cant comment on it as everyone's tanks are in different places receive light at different times at different intensities and temps in their homes.

So when it comes down to it, I still cannot ever say "yes" to someone saying they want to use direct sunlight on their tank. Mostly just to cover my own rumpkin.

When that thread comes back and someone says "Wooden you dumb **** you told me to blah blah blah dead red queen blah blah you owe me 1200 dollars blah blah"


EDIT: In addition to your comment about temperature your completely right, and i did try to stray away from it a bit, but with that sort of lighting that i suggested heating most likely will no longer be an issue. But then you get to go over and gripe with the reefers and say "my waaaaater is too hot"


EDIT2: can you post some pics of your windowsill tanks? or link me to them, I'd like to see them (im always curious lol)

 

[nmonks]

EDIT2: can you post some pics of your windowsill tanks? or link me to them, I'd like to see them (im always curious lol)

By all means. See below.

It's not the sort of tank everyone would want, but it certainly is possible. This tank is on an east-facing window, so gets direct sunlight in the morning (when the water is at its coolest) and by about midday temperature can climb to over 30C. After that it's out of direct sunlight, and the tank cools down again. So it's probably experiencing a fairly natural cycle of temperatures. The plants here are common hygrophila and giant hygrophila, and their growth rate was astonishing.

Needless to say, baby fish and shrimps thrive in this tank, growing rapidly on all the green algae. The main problem is that as the plants become more "woody" they create bigger and bigger root systems, eventually filling up the tank. So you have to cut them back severely every few months. On the upside, the rate of nitrate removal is incredibly high, so water changes become almost redundant. Mostly all I do is top up with rainwater to compensate for evaporation and transpiration.

Cheers, Neale

 

[WoodenChair]

That is EXACTLY what i was hoping to see. that's excellent!


One thing i cant see is how much of the tank is actually being exposed to direct light. From what i can see top 4 inches?

Definitely good for inverts / bottom feeders that aren't used to alot of light but are used to alot of nooks and holes to feed / hide in.

Is that your only picture? I have to pester you for some shots from multiple angles, the roots all of it, I have to have one of these.

If you wanted to do a separate write up maybe? i just have to have one, and me being me, i have to know EVERYTHING about it before i do.

Ive already started a project folder and added that picture to it