Live Sand

[JawsA10]

not a big deal but could anyone tell me about live sand? im hoping to put some in my fresh tank so my spiny eel is safe

thx in advance

 

[OohFeeshy]

Not for FW tanks Live sand will' firstly, raise your pH, Gh etc which really isn't a good thing, but most importantly, the 'live' label does mean something... it is supposed to be full of live marine bacteria and other tiny critters, which upno going in your fw tank will die, rot and produce large amounts of ammonia. Stick with play sand.

 

[jayjay]

Note:avatar is not my fish! It is something I found on google images!!

lol your avatar is off south park...... sorry.

 

[JawsA10]

heh ya just changed it. ill change that sig now....................

what about argonite?? will that be ok

 

[Betta5]

Not in freshwater

 

[Bignose]

Man, these guys above sure are pessimitic.

Live sand can indeed by used in freshwater tanks. The trick is in finding anerobic zones, that is, zones without oxygen. If the live sand bacteria are exposed to oxygen, they will perish basically immediately. I know I have read of at least one person implementing a trickle fliter with a very long column of sand. The column was long enough that all the oxygen was used up at the top by the aerobic bacteria (the usual suspects in FW tanks) so that nearer the bottom of the column anaerobic bacteria (live sand) could grow. The real tricky part about this is keeping the sand bed and flowrates in balance so that there is enough food for the aerobic bacteria at the top to work so that no oxygen gets to and kills the bacteria at the bottom. Sand is also notorious for ratholeing, that is forming channels so that water flows right through the bed without contacting sand and hence bacteria. The equilibrium was very, very delicate if I remember correctly.

I think that if you put enough sand at the bottom of your tank (several inches at least) that anerobic conditions would exist down there as well.

But, these are extraordinary circumstances, usually not found in freshwater tanks at all. So, I guess really, the pessimism expressed above is completely justified!

 

[mr.dark-saint]

"Live Sand" like the ones from CaribSea are pre-packaged with water is "Marine use only" since the "Live" critters which make it live are Marine worms, crustacea and microbs. Unless they came out with Freshwater blend.

OohFeeshy Live Sand will not raise the pH unless it's "Calcium" based (again it's critters and microbes that make it "Live"). (most of the post I can agree with). It is waste of money if you buy it and used it for Freshwater application. Just get a bag of "dry" crushed Aragonite or Oolitic sand or Pool filter sand since it's a bit more uniformed and larger than play sand (in some circumstances).

Bignose you got some things mixed up here. (good break down in this site http/www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/han...icleHandy.html)

The area of "Plenum" in aquarium is a dead space of just near still water. I made my set up by using two sets of Under Gravel Filter Plates (only and no powerjet or filter) the whole PVC and Egg Crate and Window screen was too much work .

The "trickle Filter" thing you speak of sounds more like "ghetto" calcium reactor or a bio-chamber (like a bio-ball wet/dry) if it drains from the bottom.

Usually the worms and burrowing critters in the sand, osmotic circulation and the NO2 gas from the bottom is enough movement for the Plenum.

In Freshwater one can still create a "Plenum". After all it's basically a dead space of water in near still condition. I'll agree it maybe rare to have such a condition in Freshwater (other than bogs and swamps).

Is it justified? Yes and no. It is justified for me since I had it all in place and didn't go and buy it . Also the deep layer of Crushed Aragonite is nice . Would I purposely do this set up again for Freshwater? Yes I think I would (or at the very least skim some of the "CA" out of the 125 to less than five inch level ).

I ran my 125 gallon in "My Modified" H.A.N.D.Y. method for dozen plus years (with a few tweeks). Then converted the whole thing (minus about 100 pounds of Live Rock) in to an African system with the Plenum still intact. I figured the Freshwater Microbes will colonize eventually and anaerobic under the "UGF" plates once again. Sure there aren't any starfish or worms that can colonize but one still can substitute critters for critters. One of these days I'll go in to my Cat Tail barrel and pull out Freshwater Gammeras and seed the system (they're also great treats for the fish). Even with my Neolamprologus Brichardi (shallow pits), N. Helianthus (who dug pretty deep pits and bred) is minimal for the vast acerage (okay it may not be that large but it would be if you were a fish ). Well, see if I have to do any water changes in my Freshwater H.A.N.D.Y. Tank (or not ).

 

[OohFeeshy]

OohFeeshy Live Sand will not raise the pH unless it's "Calcium" based

Which is what all substrates for marine tanks are. Marine tanks need a high pH, the water is buffered by the salt, LR and substrate.

 

[Bignose]

The "trickle Filter" thing you speak of sounds more like "ghetto" calcium reactor or a bio-chamber (like a bio-ball wet/dry) if it drains from the bottom.

No, the trickle filter was exactly as I described it. A bed of sand that was colonized with aerobic bacteria on the top and anaerobic bacteria at the bottom. The guy used a powerhead or small pump to take a small flow of water from the bottom of his tank, and then let gravity draw the water through the bed. I did say I have only read about it one time, and it was more of a proof-of-concept to show that anaerobic bacteria could be cultivated in a FW tank than a this-is-a-long-term-solution.

That and I don't know what else I "mixed up," since I also said that a thick enough layer of sand would create anaerobic conditons, just like the "dead zones" you talked about. When the sand turns black in your FW tank, there is a good chance that it has become anaerobic.

Diana Walstad in her book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium actually talks about the beneficial aspects of having anaerobic conditions under the substrate near the plant roots. She has around several inches of soil as the substrates in her tanks. The anaerobic bacteria will use most anything for an energy source, reducing nitrates is just one of them. The bacteria can also reduce iron, sulfur, manganese, and so on. The great thing for plants is that these reduced forms are much more easily taken up, so anaerobic conditions help the plants get their micronutrients.