I dont think I will learn from this site.

[Phreaxer]

I posted a couple questions, and the basic verdict I have concluded was that some of you are way too obsessed. I asked about a fish tank at work, 1-2 gallons etc... I was told to wait 6-7 weeks to put fish in it... ? Come on! I have had goldfish from pet stores, walmart, etc. and I take them home, put them in a bowl, and feed them. After a week, I clean the bowl, replace the water, And they have done just fine. I had a fish that lived over 3 years, in a bowl that was aty e most ½ gallon in size, no pump, filter, chemicals, NOTHING. He did just fine til my mom tried to put him in a 10 gallon tank. He died right after that. When you go to the store, you see dozens of fish in one 10 gallon tank, and they seem to be doing all right for the time being. I read someone said you need 75+ gallons for half a dozen goldfish. Come one man, that is a little rediculous, don't you think? I will be getting my tank this weekend, and setting it up at work next week with fish in it, and I will be sure to post how they do. I would be willing to place odds on the fact that I can keep them alive without diong all this excessive crap.

 

[gadazobe]

Why bother asking opinions if you have no intention of acting on the replies. You asked questions and got answers from mostly experienced fish keepers - who look on fish as living creatures and not just a fashion or work accessory and have the best interests of the fish at heart. You cannot compare keeping goldfish to keeping tropical fish - they are two different species that have different needs. BTW, goldfish can live to a ripe old age of 10+ years if they have the right environment to live in - not just 3 years.

 

[cichlid_freak]

OK, your opinion is definatly appreciated. The fact remains that you have suffered mortality due to your stuborn disregaurd of maintaining a conducive environment beneficial to you fish. The fact remains that goldfish are a hardy, inexpencive and often under appreciated sector of fish keeping.

Cycling a tank is necessary to provide a stress free or at least reduced environment for your fish. The reason your little fishy survived is because it will handle harch environments. Think of it this way, I can put you in a closed room with no toliet and stagnant water and unprepared, raw, rotting, luckwarm food, and you MAY survive for some time. Do you think you will be happy? Do you think you will live to be seventy? How about me putting 5 more people in there? 10? 20? Do you think you will all be happy?

You need to provide a good environment for you fish. This means allowing your tank to cycle, which does require fish (unless artificially placing ammonia) and does stress them out. This gives the beneficial bacteria a chance to multiply to a level able to handle the amount of ammonia, and nitrItes released by the animal you are keeping. This is as essential as removing chlorine, and other toxins.

You MAY be able to get a fish to survive, but the advice we give and gave are those that will allow you to make your fish thrive.

 

[semper fi]

i deleted my response to this post since i felt that it was unneccessary. sorry that you feel that way. i feel that my time is more valuable helping someone provide a suitable environment for their fish rather than try to change someone who's mind is made up that life in a box of water is all a goldfish is worthy of.

best of luck to you

semper fi

 

[Phreaxer]

Gada, I think that you mistook my comments as anger, or an attempt to insult you (everyone on this site) and or your advice. After re-reading my origiinal post, I can definately see how that is a viable thing to assume. And for that I appologize. I didnt mean to come off as a jerk. I like that analogy thta you used chiclid. It brought a little reality to what I didnt think about in the full effect. As far as the goldfish I had, he was fine til my mom put him in a big tank taht was not warmed, treated, cycled (new concept to me) or anything else. I had no idea that he could have lived to be 10 years old though! Wow!

Anywasys, I will continue to read up before I make another uneducated statement like the one I initially possted in this thread. I would appreciate it if you would email me so that I can ask much more specific questions if you have the time Chinclid.
Again, im sorryy, and I appreciate the non-aggressive replies.

 

[CFC]

If you dont like what you hear then dont ask the question in the first place.Tropicals are far more difficult than keeping goldfish,almost as different as keeping cats and dogs even.If keeping goldfish in tiny prison like bowls is what you want then go do it but dont insult the advise given by people who have been keeping tropical fish for many years,you may also want to find yourself another forum to join,one that caters for inconsiderate rude goldfish keepers.


Since writing the above i see that you have made a attempt at a apology,hopefully you may now have changed your mind about how to keep fish a may become a decent respectful fishkeeper.

 

[dolphin]

Hi

Just thaught that I would add my two pence worth.

Gold fish can (if given the correct enviroment) live for over twenty years. So only living for 3 years is like dying in your early teens.


Dolphin

 

[Jamnog]

the americans have much more room than us brits thus they want bigger fish tanks for their fish i woulds not go below the 3 inch of fish per uk gallon or another one was 1 inch per litre square tho i would just like to say its how ever many inches you want to put in how ever much tank. it is a personal choise beond being cruel or overkill its irrelivent after what fish importers put the fish through at the air port using arsenic and such to stun them and putting them in a tiny bit of water and a huge load of oxigen to transport them.
after all that i want to be as kind to them as i can by treating them nicely but i wouldnt want to preach about it. as such i say its all relative and empathy is a good thing to remeber and stuff meh why should i care i look after my fish they live a long time i save money on new fish and sometimes i breed them. also 75 is totally nuts just for some little goldfish unless to have 300 of them. and the tanks at the shop are full to bursting with fish but not for more than a few weeks.

 

[mrV]

When you go to the store, you see dozens of fish in one 10 gallon tank, and they seem to be doing all right for the time being.

It's only temporary place for them. And when you look tanks, you probably see fishes mix together (soft/hard water). But like I said, the tanks are only temporary tanks. Stores can't keep dozens tanks, because it's usually impossible. BUT it didn't mean, that you could do same at home. Some stores keep dogs in a cage, does it mean, that you do same at home?

I read someone said you need 75+ gallons for half a dozen goldfish.

Actually he/she was right and wrong. When you buy those manipulated monsters (manipulated goldfishes, not natural looking) which lenght will be only 15cm, you can keep them in "small tanks" like 3-4 in 300 liters (75-80 us gal) when they are adults. Goldfish needs good water, cooler than normal aquarium fishes. Those manipulated monsters don't tolerate too heavy flowing so filtration should be thought carefully.

When you buy normal goldfish, theirs size will be 30+ cm and you need a BIG tank.

Normal glodfishes usually lives decades in good condition. How many friends you have whose goldfishes have lived over a month, maybe over a year? Those monsters (like I say when meaning manipulated goldfishes) usually lives several years too, they suffer many different desiases.

Come one man, that is a little rediculous, don't you think?

No, it isn't. Only ridiculous thing is that people "stow" big fishes into small "jar". It's ridiculous and I always think, what the hell he/she is thinking - has he/she brain at all?

walmart

Probably best way is to be without looking pets from Walmart. I have heart it really isn't a good place searching information etc...

Jamnog:

some little goldfish

15-20cm, or over 30cm a little fish? If this is a little, what will be neontetras? A microscopical fish 8) <- looking neons through thick lens...

 

[cichlidmaster]

its irrelivent after what fish importers put the fish through at the air port using arsenic and such to stun them and putting them in a tiny bit of water and a huge load of oxigen to transport them.

Jamnog,

This is the second referrence you have made to exporters using arsenic to sedate fish during transport.

Where did you get this bit of information from?? I have NEVER heard of arsenic being used as a sedative

Poisons were banned long ago as a sedative for capturing and transporting fish.

Perhaps many years ago this practice was used, but it is seldom if ever used today. It was typically the collectors who used drugs to "stun" the fish for capture....NOT the exporter who used them for shipping!!

Importers never have to use anything due to they are the ones receiving the fish to either sell themselves or sell to the shops in their area.

As for a tiny bit of water and a whole lot of oxygen.......well without it the fish would not survive. Also without this practice you, I and everyone else would never be able to enjoy the fish we keep!!!

Fish actually only need enough water to cover their bodies and no more to survive shipping. This leaves ample room for the oxygen.

I personally have only used sedatives on several occassions when shipping large cichlids and then it is in such a small dose it is barely noticable.

Ask finatic how her pleco was when it arrived to her and she released it from the shipping bag/water!! Did it lay on the bottom or was it instantly active!!

Shipping fish is not a difficult thing for one who has been doing it for years.

I would also like to add this........overstocking tanks is a viable thing to do.....IF and ONLY IF the person knows what they are doing and ONLY as a temporary measure!!!

I am not trying to sound like a knowitall, but I have many tanks that are stocked to the point of making you all cringe at the sight of them, but I know what needs to be done to keep these fish healthy during this time.

Keep in mind, I am quite like the LFS whereas my stock turnover rate is high, but there are times when I have to buy in quantity to get the absolute best price and this means overstocking tanks until the stock gets sold.

CM

 

[finatic]

I received a peppermint pleco from CM about a month ago. It survived the flight from Michigan to New Hampshire just fine. It was very well packaged. I did just like CM told me and when I released him into the tank he made himself right to home. He is very healthy and happy. I would do it again without hesitation. You need to be sure you buy your fish from someone who knows what they are talking about.

Thanks CM.

Finatic

 

[mrV]

Jamnog:

what fish importers put the fish through at the air port using arsenic and such to stun them and putting them in a tiny bit of water and a huge load of oxigen to transport them.

I haven't ever heart that someone use arsenic, but I have heart that they use e.g. MS222 to keep fish calm. You can add oxygen into water using H2O2, but you must be really careful because H2O2 is oxidazing agent.

In water it dissolves immediately: 2 H2O2 -> 2 H2O + O2

Before you add H2O2, you should read recommandations and instructions about how to use it.

 

[gadazobe]

Phreaxer, apology accepted. I hope that you will continue to ask questions and act on the advice given - thus turning you into a successful and happy fishkeeper with happy and healthy fish. Please understand that most, if not all, of the people on this forum are dedicated fish keepers with many many years of experience between them. We have all made mistakes and learnt from them and we now try to help newbies from making those same mistakes.

 

[ratts]

if you ever pay enough attention to the fish in walmart, and a few other pet stores that carry fish, you will allmost always see at least a dozen dead fish floating, aspecially in the morning hours. at least i do. the other day i was in walmart around 2 in the afternoon and there was at least 20 dead gold fish that was referd to earlier, not to mention some of the others in other tankes. and if anyone has ever worked in some of the big name petstores (wont mention names)alot of there fish either arive dead or are dead before there next weekly ship ment, that also happens with there small animals also. so i wouldnt suggest trying to copy what the stores do for convenence of holding a large amount. also if you pay enough attention alot of the employs have no clue on how to take care of them, and so one (alot do know and thats great, but the should all know if there going to do that job, and i wanna thank those who do know what there talking about).

 

[Jamnog]

i was talking about the fish that get sent over from china to those huge chain shops cm not people who breed them i respect the difference. and yes SOME people do do terrible things to fish i appologise that i didnt make the distinction between i was talking about the shops that keep them in 1 foot tanks and have a single filter for all the tanks you know the shops i mean they are all over the uk i cant comment on the fish traders of the united states nor can i comment on those that come from finland. i was passing on information that i had learned about chain shops. chain shops in the uk. thats chain shops in the uk. not making destinctions has made this a toutchy subject and im sorry ive upset some of you. i wont mention any sedative ever again or packing them in pollystyrine crates by the hundreds and leaving them sitting in airports for days as that doesnt happen.
) whoops