Hard water tannins?

WhistlingBadger

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I was thinking about the similar problems @MattW and I have had with Sawbwa barbs. We were speculating about some sort of bacterial or parasitic infection. Tannins in the water can help with those, or so I'm told, so I was thinking about throwing in a rooibos tea bag to add some tannins and help this new batch get settled in. But it's hard water, around 8-9 degrees. Do tannins work in hard water? Thoughts?
 
tannins should stain the water, but depending the calcium buffer, it may not change the ph… but if these fish graze on wood pieces they may get something beneficial from the wood, even though the water is hard…

I’ve been trying a few of these cookies… too early to tell if they’ll make a difference

 
I was thinking about the similar problems @MattW and I have had with Sawbwa barbs. We were speculating about some sort of bacterial or parasitic infection. Tannins in the water can help with those, or so I'm told, so I was thinking about throwing in a rooibos tea bag to add some tannins and help this new batch get settled in. But it's hard water, around 8-9 degrees. Do tannins work in hard water? Thoughts?
Tannins (polyphenolic compounds) lower pH by releasing hydrogen ions, but they also possess distinct biochemical mechanisms that inhibit or kill microorganisms even in well-buffered water where the pH remains stable.
 
I was thinking about the similar problems @MattW and I have had with Sawbwa barbs. We were speculating about some sort of bacterial or parasitic infection. Tannins in the water can help with those, or so I'm told, so I was thinking about throwing in a rooibos tea bag to add some tannins and help this new batch get settled in. But it's hard water, around 8-9 degrees. Do tannins work in hard water? Thoughts?
Here is surprising information I found on rooibos tea.
Rooibos tea (Aspalathus linearis) does contain tannins, but the levels are significantly lower than those found in traditional "true" teas like black or green tea (Camellia sinensis). While the deep reddish-brown color of brewed rooibos might suggest a high tannin content, its chemical profile is quite distinct.
In comparative studies, rooibos typically shows a tannin content of less than 5%, whereas black tea can range from 7% to 15% or higher.
  • Black/Green Tea: High in condensed tannins and catechins.
  • Rooibos: Low in tannins, containing roughly 38–40 mg/g, compared to over 100 mg/g in some green teas.

 
I also keep reading that rooibos contains a lot of antioxidants and polyphenols, which some people seen to think are good for fish. (Of course, a lot of people think aloe vera is good for fish too, which I'm far from sure about...) I put a couple tea bags in each tank and left them until the water took on a light Amber color. Probably won't hurt; might help.
 
curious if you would be worried about the caffeine in black tea ( I think rooibos, is caffeine free ) but if there is more tannins in black tea, if the caffeine would be a problem??? I would guess there would be less caffeine in a soaked rather than brewed black tea bag, but I have also gotten the zoomies from drinking several gallons of sun tea when working outside during the summer…
 
curious if you would be worried about the caffeine in black tea ( I think rooibos, is caffeine free ) but if there is more tannins in black tea, if the caffeine would be a problem??? I would guess there would be less caffeine in a soaked rather than brewed black tea bag, but I have also gotten the zoomies from drinking several gallons of sun tea when working outside during the summer…
Well, here's something I just learned: Caffeine will dissolve slowly in cool water, but it takes hours rather than minutes. Tannins are extremely reluctant to dissolve in cool water. That's why cold-brewed tea is generally considered smoother than hot-brewed.

I also know from drinking a lot of tea that caffeine dissolves a lot faster than tannins in boiling water. (This is why it's generally recommended that tea for drinking be steeped for three to five minutes, so one gets the caffeine and the good flavor, but not the bitterness) Something like 90% of the caffeine dissolves in the first 30 seconds, in boiling water. Sometimes, if I feel like a cup of tea in the evening, I'll do a 30 second steep to remove the caffeine, then steep as usual to extract the flavor.

So... I guess for maximum rooibos benefit to a fish tank, one should brew the tea in boiling water, let it cool, then dump it in, rather than just throw in a couple of teabags like I generally do.

For caffeine-bearing black or green tea, steep it in boiling water for 30 seconds to extract the caffeine, dump that water out, then steep it again for five minutes or so to extract the tannins and other good stuff. Dump that second brew in the tank after it cools off.

But I can't bring myself to put black tea in my tanks. I want to keep that for myself and give the fishies the nasty-tasting rooibos. :)
 
@seangee has stated that he uses Roobio tea in his soft water aquarium with very good results . I don’t know if tannins leach out of wood or other organics in hard water but I have a hunch that they don’t . The reason I say that is because of my observations around here in the rivers , creeks and lakes . You don’t see any sign of that even though there is a lot of organic matter that washes into the water . Like I said I don’t really know , just a hunch .
 
it may have something to do with the ph of the base water… but while acid is corrosive, so is high alkali , but perhaps the components in the wood react to acid more than alkali???
 
@seangee has stated that he uses Roobio tea in his soft water aquarium with very good results . I don’t know if tannins leach out of wood or other organics in hard water but I have a hunch that they don’t . The reason I say that is because of my observations around here in the rivers , creeks and lakes . You don’t see any sign of that even though there is a lot of organic matter that washes into the water . Like I said I don’t really know , just a hunch .
Our mountain water takes on a slight amber color in the summer, sometimes pretty strong. I think that's got to be from twigs, leaves, and pine needles falling in the water. Sort of a cold-water blackwater habitat?
 
Our mountain water takes on a slight amber color in the summer, sometimes pretty strong. I think that's got to be from twigs, leaves, and pine needles falling in the water. Sort of a cold-water blackwater habitat?
I will have to take a closer look . I think I know what you’re describing but I always thought it was sunlight reflecting off the gravel and rocks in the stream bed . Maybe I need new glasses 🤣 .
 
I started using Rooibos tea when I was getting into keeping Altum angels. I got my information from an amazing source there. The wild angel site is no longer active and the forums shut a long time ago. But, there were two great assets there both on the site staff. One grew up in Altum country and visited all the rivers with them. The other was a PhD professor at a University in South Africa which is the only place in the world Rooibos grows. My gut researches potato viruses but two of his colleagues research Rooibos. This plant often grows near potato farms.

A lot of Altum keepers who wanted stained water use Rooibos. I went overbooard and bough a ton of it. I first experimented with tte bags. I
sold it as well at events. So I have a handout I used. I cannot figure out how to post a doc or pdf so the formetting and pics for the below are lost or gone. I fixed that some, Also, the pic that is missing of the plany came from the professor above and the quote at the end from the other gent mentioned above:

Rooibos Tea
-> Is beneficial for fish, 100% caffeine and tannin free and you can drink it too.

-> Will stain water like peat, almond leaves or alder cones and can be used with them.

-> Will not soften water or lower pH. It is more likely to bump pH up by 0.1.

-> Can be brewed like tea and poured into the water or can be put into a bag in one’s filter. Once brewed it can be stored refrigerated for about a week.

-> When brewing, allow it to boil for a bit after the tea is added to the hot water.

-> It is hard to overdose. Start with 1 tablespoon per 10 gal. (38 L) of water and adjust from there to find the color you like.

-> Buying Rooibos helps to support the local farmers in South Africa.


Rooibos tea (meaning red bush in Afrikaans and pronounced roy + boss) has nothing to do with traditional tea, which comes from the Chinese plant Camellia sinensis in the family Rosaceae. Rooibos comes from the plant, Aspalathus linearis, a legume in the family Fabaceae- it is related to peas and beans. The bush is more like a broom than a bush. The top of the bush is cut off, dried and oxidized before packing in tea bags or sold as loose tea.

Wikipedia (at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooibos) states:

“Rooibos is becoming more popular in Western countries, particularly among health-conscious consumers, due to its high level of antioxidants such as aspalathin and nothofagin, its lack of caffeine, and its low tannin levels compared to fully oxidized black tea or unoxidized green tea leaves. Rooibos also contains a number of phenolic compounds, including flavanols, flavones, flavanones, and dihydrochalcones”.

In fish keeping we are interested in the plant phenolic compounds that act as antioxidants and antibacterials (it won’t harm filters). This is similar to the humic acids found in natural tea stained water. Oak leaves contain the plant phenolic quercetin (from the Latin name for oak trees, Quercus robur). Rooibos contains some quercetin plus the compound aspalathin, closely related to quercetin.

Research at the University of Stellenbosch indicates that rooibos has natural stress relieving properties. It is safe to use and is beneficial for both keepers and fish. The "organic" label is unnecessary as rooibos is grown naturally without insecticides and herbicides, they are just simply not needed and can actually harm the plant. Here is an email I got from an Altum keeper:

“Hey Chris, just wanted to let you know that my big bag (almost gone, I guess we are using it more than my altum!) Last night I wrapped some (rooibos) with sphagnum peat moss in a fine mesh bag that my wife made for the purpose and I simply put it in one of the overflow boxes. You gotta see how nice the water and the fish look today.”



I preferred to brew The Rooibos into a tea. I did this in the microwave in a 4 cup Pyrex glass measuring cup. I added the loose tea to the water after it reached a boil and the nukes it a bit more. I batched changing water in a can adjacent to the Altum tank and poured the liquid into the can through a mesh coffee filter cone that came with my coffee make and I never use.

But I was also changing my tap parameters for the fish and also used alder cones in a bag in a filter and almond leaves. I bough both in quantity and sold some of the excess. I also used muriatic acid to help lower the pH. I would change out the leaves every other week as they made a mess. So, I was able to reduce the number of leaves by using the Rooibos. It helped greatly with the staining and with less mess and fuss and health of the fish.

I actually used the Rooibos on one occasion in another tank as a med. I was experiencing a problem I could not figure out and figured, what the heck I highly doubt it could hurt. It actually helped and the staining was completely gone after a few weekly water changes.
 
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I actually used the Rooibos on one occasion in another tank as a med. I was experiencing a problem I could not figure out and figured, what the heck I highly doubt it could hurt. It actually helped and the staining was completely gone after a few weekly water changes.
This is exactly what I'm hoping for. Wild-caught fish often come in slightly sick, or at least vulnerable. Hopefully the rooibos will help. Thanks for this.
 

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