I have always found it hard to keep clowns,i had just turned the light on and was looking around the tank and noticed the fish eating at the dead loach,i would say since i have had the tanks i have had approx 12 loaches and they had all died now another one dead out of the four i have,everything in the tank is normal,all the fish all get on well with each other no aggression at all
Hard To Keep Clown Loaches!
- Thread starter gh74
- Start date
It will help to have the data that is "normal," plus some other info here. Can you post water parameters (GH, KH, pH, temperature), and results of tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. How large is the tank, how many clown loaches did you have together initially, and what other fish are in the tank? Water changes, how often and how much? Any substances being added to the tank? Plants? What do you feed the loaches? If you can tell, are they behaving normally initially, or not?
I will assume from what you've posted that this is not a new tank, but how long has it been running? Do you have plenty of "hiding spots" for the loaches, like chunks of wood or decor?
Byron.
I will assume from what you've posted that this is not a new tank, but how long has it been running? Do you have plenty of "hiding spots" for the loaches, like chunks of wood or decor?
Byron.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
I will add one more thing to what Byron has asked. How do the loaches look when they die and how long do you seem to have them before they do. These are usually wild caught fish that mare rarely quarantined or treated between the wild and local store and can come with parasites. What I am wondering is if they appeared to be or were getting skinnier after you got them home and when they died.
There not been bullied ive been watching the tank night and day as i was up with restless legs the other night nightmare 
doubt am going to have to get the 8 footer built as there none for sale over here,always give a good feed of sinking pellets so the bottom feeders get there share,and the love bloodworm,once these others die i wont get anymore until i get the big tank or not bother with them at all.It looked normal to me and they were quarantined for a week as i buy from a place that orders straight from asia,america south/central then there put into quarantine and there adamant they will not sell until there out of quarantine
Parameters are
PH 7.6
HR 7.4
AMMONIA 0
nitrite 0
nitrate is now at 10 since i removed the purigen etc
doubt am going to have to get the 8 footer built as there none for sale over here,always give a good feed of sinking pellets so the bottom feeders get there share,and the love bloodworm,once these others die i wont get anymore until i get the big tank or not bother with them at all.It looked normal to me and they were quarantined for a week as i buy from a place that orders straight from asia,america south/central then there put into quarantine and there adamant they will not sell until there out of quarantineParameters are
PH 7.6
HR 7.4
AMMONIA 0
nitrite 0
nitrate is now at 10 since i removed the purigen etc
Parameters seem fine...what is "HR" ?
Without knowing the other fish and the tank size, can't offer much more. Stress to the loaches can occur from many sources, and if nothing else is being affected I would be inclined to suspect this, or the fish themselves are not in the best shape. Loaches no matter the store are not always in good condition.
Byron.
Without knowing the other fish and the tank size, can't offer much more. Stress to the loaches can occur from many sources, and if nothing else is being affected I would be inclined to suspect this, or the fish themselves are not in the best shape. Loaches no matter the store are not always in good condition.
Byron.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
Here is the thing. Live fish are an asset that is best turned over ASAP. Treating fish cost money, keeping them costs money feeding them costs too, So pretty much all along the trade speed in selling them on is a goal. Very few importers, stores or fish keepers actually do a proper quarantine. They hate all that time waiting.
If one gets tank raised fish it is suggested a 4 week period for Q is the minimum and for wild caughts some will suggest 3 months or even as many as 6. And those times reset to 0 if the fish need to be treated for something. A lot of the problems that can arrive with wild fish can take some time to even become manifest and this certainly applies to clowns. I have pretty much quarantined fish using this forumula for about a decade now. I started every since I brought ich into a tank with new fish and did not quarantine. My only other episode of ich was in a Q tank and took 17/18 tetras.
Wasting disease is common in clowns. The fish eat fine but they lose weight over time until you can notice they are skinny. It can be harder to detect in smaller clowns as they can tend to be skinny from not being fed properly on the way to ones tanks from when they were caught. This illness is caused by a parasite and usually requires some very specific meds to eliminate. While these are easy to get in the States, its very difficult in the UK. The same med appears also to be effective against velvet and ich. It is called Flubendazole.
I work with somebody who imports from all over the world. I sometimes pick up the fish for her at the transshipper and meet her half way to her place. I am pretty familiar with the whole process. The part of things you do not hear or see is what happens between the time the fish are caught or removed from where they are farmed and shipped. Sometimes one loses entire shipments. The fish do not usually arrive in the best condition and for sure they often arrive needing to be medicated. Thus usually involves deworming first and antiparasite treatment next. I know, I have some fish that came to me weeks after they left a river in SA. The meds I had on hand to be prepared included antibiotics as well as the others.
Just as an fyi, I have a few clown loaches in my tanks close to 12 years now and they were several years old when I got them.
If one gets tank raised fish it is suggested a 4 week period for Q is the minimum and for wild caughts some will suggest 3 months or even as many as 6. And those times reset to 0 if the fish need to be treated for something. A lot of the problems that can arrive with wild fish can take some time to even become manifest and this certainly applies to clowns. I have pretty much quarantined fish using this forumula for about a decade now. I started every since I brought ich into a tank with new fish and did not quarantine. My only other episode of ich was in a Q tank and took 17/18 tetras.
Wasting disease is common in clowns. The fish eat fine but they lose weight over time until you can notice they are skinny. It can be harder to detect in smaller clowns as they can tend to be skinny from not being fed properly on the way to ones tanks from when they were caught. This illness is caused by a parasite and usually requires some very specific meds to eliminate. While these are easy to get in the States, its very difficult in the UK. The same med appears also to be effective against velvet and ich. It is called Flubendazole.
I work with somebody who imports from all over the world. I sometimes pick up the fish for her at the transshipper and meet her half way to her place. I am pretty familiar with the whole process. The part of things you do not hear or see is what happens between the time the fish are caught or removed from where they are farmed and shipped. Sometimes one loses entire shipments. The fish do not usually arrive in the best condition and for sure they often arrive needing to be medicated. Thus usually involves deworming first and antiparasite treatment next. I know, I have some fish that came to me weeks after they left a river in SA. The meds I had on hand to be prepared included antibiotics as well as the others.
Just as an fyi, I have a few clown loaches in my tanks close to 12 years now and they were several years old when I got them.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
I do not think you are the problem. I think it is unhealthy stock that is more likely the issue. Quarantining clowns for one week is almost useless. They should automatically be dewormed and treated for internal parasites on arrival. That alone take more than one week. I rush the importers I know when I get fish from them and I still want them to have had the fish for 3 weeks or so and done a complete round of these meds and have not seen anything that needed antibiotics.
My best advice is that if you wish to continue trying to keep these fish you get your own Q tank, bring them into that and consider eithing proactively medicating or else watching them for a number of weeks. the tank should be bare bottom so you can see the poop and andyhing that come out that may be big enough to identify as a dead worm etc. Be sure to provide them some artificial plant,s if you can, and then hidey holes. Use things you can bleach afterwards if you want to reuse them because if the fish die it means there is potentially stuff left behind you do not want to go into your main or any other tank.
It is important to be able to observe any fish in a Q or Hospital tank so it helps to create a space which makes them as comfortable as possible. The effects of stress are amplified in weakened and sick fish. If you give the clowns lots of cover, the will come out more making it easier to monitor them.
I have kept a variety of fish including some very pricey and harder to find ones. I am nearing the age where I will be starting to back out of the hobby. I can tell you this for sure, the last fish I will have before exiting the hobby are my clown loaches. They are so much fun to watch. And here is what made me have to have these fish in my early days in the hobby and which I hope will cause you and others to want to keep them: http
/www.loaches.com/species-index/photos/c/chromobotia_macracanthus_group04.jpg/image_view_fullscreen
My best advice is that if you wish to continue trying to keep these fish you get your own Q tank, bring them into that and consider eithing proactively medicating or else watching them for a number of weeks. the tank should be bare bottom so you can see the poop and andyhing that come out that may be big enough to identify as a dead worm etc. Be sure to provide them some artificial plant,s if you can, and then hidey holes. Use things you can bleach afterwards if you want to reuse them because if the fish die it means there is potentially stuff left behind you do not want to go into your main or any other tank.
It is important to be able to observe any fish in a Q or Hospital tank so it helps to create a space which makes them as comfortable as possible. The effects of stress are amplified in weakened and sick fish. If you give the clowns lots of cover, the will come out more making it easier to monitor them.
I have kept a variety of fish including some very pricey and harder to find ones. I am nearing the age where I will be starting to back out of the hobby. I can tell you this for sure, the last fish I will have before exiting the hobby are my clown loaches. They are so much fun to watch. And here is what made me have to have these fish in my early days in the hobby and which I hope will cause you and others to want to keep them: http
/www.loaches.com/species-index/photos/c/chromobotia_macracanthus_group04.jpg/image_view_fullscreensorry i should of made it clearer that when they arrive there done for all the stuff that you mention there,its when they go into the shop its then there in the tank for a week before they will sell them,good and interesting reading in your posts about the clowns ....thanks
graham
graham
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
There is no way importers hold fish for long enough to know a short treatment has worked.
/www.inkmkr.com/Fish/FlubendazoleTreatment.pdf
That means the importer has to hold the fish for a month to be safe. Do not believe everything they tell you in the store. That is one example.
Fish usually come in from either importers or fish farms. The next stop is often a wholesaler and their facility and then the fish shop. three different sets of water, three places to get infected and which we have no real idea of their practices, only what they claim. I will bet dollars to donuts it is not necessarily easy to find healthy clowns in shops. It would raise the price.
I recently looked at an import list and here are some prices for clowns with transhipping fees are added. I can get 600 fish, 1.15 inch, for 75 cents each all the way to 160 fish at 3 inches for about $3.10 each. To reach me they have been sent from Asia, rebagged in New York City and picked up by me. I now have between $450 and $500 worth of clowns. How long will they stay with me before I can sell them on? How much will it cost me to hold them and treat them thoroughly for a host of things and to feed them? Might I not want them sold on as soon as they appear to be OK rather than weeks or months later? Most stores markup 200%-300% on fish, sometimes more. A good chunk of that price is to cover the ones that will die. I can even offer you credit for them on your next order and still not lose money. I would if they died in my tanks however. If you paid me $3.00 for a fish that cost me less than $1.00, I can replace it twice and still not lose money. And then if your store the fish do not die yet, you mark up to say $9 and sell them to the hobbyist. Now if they have the fish for a few weeks or a couple of months in their tank and it dies, they think it was their fault more often than not.
Cynical view I know, but not that uncommon. I buy most of my fish shipped to me from various sources. I worked hard to find decent ones. Often they are not the least expensive option by a long shot. But what I tell people about shipped fish in this regard is that one healthy fish is worth at least 3 DOAs. Truly good shops are not so easy to find in this day and age.
from http
/www.inkmkr.com/Fish/FlubendazoleTreatment.pdfThat means the importer has to hold the fish for a month to be safe. Do not believe everything they tell you in the store. That is one example.
Fish usually come in from either importers or fish farms. The next stop is often a wholesaler and their facility and then the fish shop. three different sets of water, three places to get infected and which we have no real idea of their practices, only what they claim. I will bet dollars to donuts it is not necessarily easy to find healthy clowns in shops. It would raise the price.
I recently looked at an import list and here are some prices for clowns with transhipping fees are added. I can get 600 fish, 1.15 inch, for 75 cents each all the way to 160 fish at 3 inches for about $3.10 each. To reach me they have been sent from Asia, rebagged in New York City and picked up by me. I now have between $450 and $500 worth of clowns. How long will they stay with me before I can sell them on? How much will it cost me to hold them and treat them thoroughly for a host of things and to feed them? Might I not want them sold on as soon as they appear to be OK rather than weeks or months later? Most stores markup 200%-300% on fish, sometimes more. A good chunk of that price is to cover the ones that will die. I can even offer you credit for them on your next order and still not lose money. I would if they died in my tanks however. If you paid me $3.00 for a fish that cost me less than $1.00, I can replace it twice and still not lose money. And then if your store the fish do not die yet, you mark up to say $9 and sell them to the hobbyist. Now if they have the fish for a few weeks or a couple of months in their tank and it dies, they think it was their fault more often than not.
Cynical view I know, but not that uncommon. I buy most of my fish shipped to me from various sources. I worked hard to find decent ones. Often they are not the least expensive option by a long shot. But what I tell people about shipped fish in this regard is that one healthy fish is worth at least 3 DOAs. Truly good shops are not so easy to find in this day and age.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
Somewhere on this forums I do think I have posted pics. i have not shot any recent ones so the best I can offer is the not great ones taken a few years back,
That SAE was about 5.5-6 inches.
The most interesting thing is when I set up the tank I made the mistake of using a large gravel. You would think that would make it hard for clowns to dig. What mine did was to learn to pick of the stones and toss them aside one by one to dig. Even more interesting was the fact that early on I ended up with too many clowns and I agreed to send a few to a fish friend to add to his group. A bit later I was accosted by him in a chat where he "complained" that my fish had taught his to throw stones.
That SAE was about 5.5-6 inches.
The most interesting thing is when I set up the tank I made the mistake of using a large gravel. You would think that would make it hard for clowns to dig. What mine did was to learn to pick of the stones and toss them aside one by one to dig. Even more interesting was the fact that early on I ended up with too many clowns and I agreed to send a few to a fish friend to add to his group. A bit later I was accosted by him in a chat where he "complained" that my fish had taught his to throw stones.
TwoTankAmin said:The most interesting thing is when I set up the tank I made the mistake of using a large gravel. You would think that would make it hard for clowns to dig. What mine did was to learn to pick of the stones and toss them aside one by one to dig. Even more interesting was the fact that early on I ended up with too many clowns and I agreed to send a few to a fish friend to add to his group. A bit later I was accosted by him in a chat where he "complained" that my fish had taught his to throw stones.
Fantastic! Great pics too.Similar threads
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