Going From A 10gal To A 72gal....suggestions...?

[rich815]

Hello all,

I've been maintaining a well-balanced and "happy" live-planted 10 gal tank for about 2 years now. Plants grow well, algae under control, chemical tests continuously good, etc. In the tank I've got a Dwarf African Frog, a few Amano shrimps, 4 neon tetras, 5 painted lamp-eyes (forgot the real name.....greyish, small minnow-like with small neon light-blue patch above the eye), a dwarf blue gourami and a couple of small catfish. We decided we wanted something big and showy for our living room and got a great deal this weekend on a 72 gal glass aquarium with stand from our small local aquarium retailer. Just set it all up yesterday with flourite on the bottom and a few plants. Treated with a chlorine/pH balance treatment, got a good Ehiem filter running, 144 watts of lighting, and am waiting a few days for the cloudiness to clear up and then will pop in the catfish and some Bio-Spira and let the cycling begin (excuse the lack of exact words or phrases, not up on my tropical fish vocab and such).

Anyway, it will soon be time to decide how to stock up from here. I'm thinking simplicity (from a Zen standpoint, not work standpoint) and am looking for suggestions on some fish ideas. I plan to plant pretty heavily with some wood and rocks and want maybe one big species (docile though) and perhaps 2-3 species of smaller schooling fish (tetras maybe).

My initial thoughts are maybe 5 discus, and then perhaps a few schools worth of smaller fish like tetras.

My questions are thus: Discus a good idea in this size tank and environment with smaller schooling fish? If I get more schooling fish like more of the blue neon-eyed fish and neon tetras, maybe one other type, will the smaller fish stay in pretty species-specific groups or will they mass together as a mish-mash and not look so good?

I mean, I am so used to up until now having to limit ourselves in the 10 gal tank and now here we are with this huge tank and unlimited possibilities. I want something impressive (thus the discuss idea) but also love the look of colorful schools against the plantings. I'm sort of overwhelmed. Suggestions, ideas?

Thanks much.

 

[cheesy feet]

Hey, first of the the lighting 144Watts it probably what would be classed as med-high light for that size tank.So you will need a good source of co2, then before you know it you will be dosing EI
With discus your first priority will be the fish.As your going planted you will want the layout to look nice but also be a good enviroment for the fish.Mopani roots with java moss on dotted around the tank, anubias's attached to bogwood in the background, and a good ground covering plant would be a cool layout imo...Well something along the lines of that.Once you have got the plants and all setup i would cycle and mature the tank for a month.Then add some schooling fish.Rummienoses or neon tetras would be nice, maybe a combo of the two.Later on the second month you could try adding more sensitive things, such as ottos and other algae eating fish + shrimp (I think discus might eat them though ).Then once you have got all that sorted I would deffinately try to add another filter, discus are high waste producers and some of the food you feed them pollutes the water quickly (such as beefheart).Still it depends on what filter model you have got 8)
I would do the stocking something like this;
5,discus of your choice
A shoal of about 25-30 schooling fish or two lots
(but half the number)
+cleaners for the plants.
Adding to my previous suggestion for the tank you could have a mixture of fast growing background plants, if you want i can list some out for you.And amazon swords in each corner.Also i would kind of push rocks to aside, it would break the theme.

Just noticed but you are using bio spera or something, I think pure ammonia of a fish cycle is the way to do it (cycle the tank that is)
Just to say it sounds like you have done some research, which is very goood!

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

10-13 gallons per fish are generally recommended for Discus. They are usually recommended to be kept as species only because although peaceful they grow to be 8 inches and will sometimes consume smaller fish. Also because Discus are "grazers", you must be careful that the other fish will not simply consume all of the Discus' food before they are done. The other problem is that some species of fish can harm your Discus by trying to eat the mucus they excrete from their skin.
Discus generally also require more frequent water changes than other fish because they need very clean water...most Discus keepers do at least twice weekly water changes...some up to 30% a day!

Plants do help to keep the nitrates level down, but remember they make cleaning the tank more difficult. Beginning discus owners are often encouraged to keep bare tanks first.

*Edit*
SimplyDiscus.com has some very good information.

Also, the suggestion of 25-30 "small" fish seems like an awful lot in addition to 5 full grown Discus! If the small fish are only 2 inches each that's 90 inches of fish in 72 gallon tank.

 

[cheesy feet]

Yup , don't ask why i put that I can't really think how many fish make a decent shoal?!

This might help you a bit, I havn't had time to edit it though.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...3&hl=discus

 

[rich815]

Hey, first of the the lighting 144Watts it probably what would be classed as med-high light for that size tank.So you will need a good source of co2, then before you know it you will be dosing EI

Yup, I realize this. I figure I'll start this way first, maybe use some Flourish CO2 treatment as a stopgap until later when I bit the bullet and get a CO2 bubbler.

With discus your first priority will be the fish.As your going planted you will want the layout to look nice but also be a good enviroment for the fish.Mopani roots with java moss on dotted around the tank, anubias's attached to bogwood in the background, and a good ground covering plant would be a cool layout imo...Well something along the lines of that.Once you have got the plants and all setup i would cycle and mature the tank for a month.

Some great advice. Thanks. I have a few plants, some tall fast growers, some medium size for the mid-ground and some grassy stuff I'll spread around as foreground cover. Will put the wood to the left side, maybe build a short rock wall on the right towards the back corner.

Then add some schooling fish.Rummienoses or neon tetras would be nice, maybe a combo of the two.Later on the second month you could try adding more sensitive things, such as ottos and other algae eating fish + shrimp (I think discus might eat them though ).

My 5 1/2 year old is gnawing at the bit to run to the fish store and start picking out willy nilly. Of course I'll control him. BUt do you think it will work doing a couple schools, and then a few other smatterings of 3-4 fish of a few other species for added variety and color or will that be too much?

Also in terms of cycle. The local guy at the fish store (small place, good rep) who seemed very knowledgeable gave me that bio-spera stuff. It's live bacteria for aiding in cycling. He said after a day or so I can add in most of the fish from my 10 gal as he said they are so few that he doubts if they will cause an ammonia spike and using the bio-spira, and a few fish's waste will get the cycle up and going just fine. Are you saying I should wait longer, even a month? Even with so few fish in such a large tank and using the Bio-Spira? Also, I'll be "seeding" the larger tank with plants and even the Esclipse bio-wheel from my 10 gal tank's filter system in the hope of bringing over some of the good, established water and bacteria from that tank. Your thoughts on that?

Then once you have got all that sorted I would deffinately try to add another filter, discus are high waste producers and some of the food you feed them pollutes the water quickly (such as beefheart).Still it depends on what filter model you have got 8)

I have the eHeim Professional II 2028. Supposedly quite high in capacity for a 72 gal tank for being on the safe side. Familiar with those? Think I'd need a second one for Discus or might that model filter suffice?

I would do the stocking something like this;
5,discus of your choice
A shoal of about 25-30 schooling fish or two lots
(but half the number)
+cleaners for the plants.

I really like the Discus I've seen. They are so beautiful. I love how they slowly lumber along, sort of school together and are seem pretty docile. I figure a nice 5-fish school of those might be a great centerpeice of the aquarium. (Bummer they might eat the shrimp though, perhaps not once I'm more planted up?). I've been reading up all I can on Discus but would love your recommendations and comment. Seems 5 small ones would be the way to go. Any hints/suggestions on getting good colorful ones so young?

Adding to my previous suggestion for the tank you could have a mixture of fast growing background plants, if you want i can list some out for you.And amazon swords in each corner.Also i would kind of push rocks to aside, it would break the theme.

Would love some plant suggestions. I have a book by a Japanese guy names Amano that has some beautiful set-ups and I'm trying to duplicate one in there, and I'm learning more about plants as I go.

Just noticed but you are using bio spera or something, I think pure ammonia of a fish cycle is the way to do it (cycle the tank that is)

I've read of the fishless ammonia cycling. Yet heard good things about thie bio-spira too (here: http/www.hoerl.com/biospira.html and here: http/www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp )

Again, thanks for any and all suggestions.

 

[rich815]

This posted twice (dupe to above) therefore am taking out most of the text.

 

[rich815]

Well, AP has some good, valid concerns about being a newbie with Discus.

So, if I chose not to go that route, any other suggestions for a larger, more docile fish, a few of which for center attention to go along with a school or two of others? Or should I just go with a 30 or so mixture of fish, maybe 3-4 types of schooling varieties? (See? I'm back and forth here, and a bit overwhelmed! Too much tank! But That's a good thing I guess)

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to scare you away from them. Discus are my absolute favorite! They are however a big investment at $35 and up for each fish so it's a good idea to know exactly what you are getting into first.

One suggestion I can make for a tank that large is to get a Python No-Spill System. It can really make your weekly water changes much easier and faster!

 

[rich815]

Don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to scare you away from them. Discus are my absolute favorite! They are however a big investment at $35 and up for each fish so it's a good idea to know exactly what you are getting into first.

One suggestion I can make for a tank that large is to get a Python No-Spill System. It can really make your weekly water changes much easier and faster!

No, I understood. But it does seem quite a commitment to do it right, and certainly not for a beginner right now. I do this azs a side hobby and entertainment for my little boy. We have a nice living room and got the tank almost as a pretty piece of furniture. Not to belittle the commitment or something but I'd like to have a small variety of fish with lots of color and plants and it seems to do/learn Discus the right way may not exactly be ideal for what I'm thinking right now. The fish store people thought they might be good but then again I did not sense they were big Discus owners...

Thanks for your thoughts.

And for the idea on the Python system. I found it online. I seems I already bought something that looks identical but a different brand name. Seems my 25' hose is about 10 feet short however and I'll have to get an extension...

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

You could possibly try Keyhole Cichlids as they are supposedly quite peaceful.

http/badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile64.html