General Cycling Questions From A 1st Timer

[iroc]

Ok ok everybody I fully understand the importance of fishless cycling at this point ( since I have lost like 6 fish over the last month) but I do have some questions about cycling

1. How can you tell when the cycle is finished ( I heard it's when Ammonia is at 0, Nitrite is at 0, Nitrate is at around 20 and ph is stable) is this info correct

2. How long does it usally take with a brand new filter and tank? ( I have been up and running for a month and a half and I still have some traces of ammonia about .05 ppm which just never seem to be going away, could it be my tester kit or am I just not waiting long enough)

3. How do live plants effect the cycling process ( I started with fake plants and have added live ones along the way, under the idea that they where going to help out the biological system, was I wrong?)

4. After a cycle is complete (please see above for numbers to tell me that has happened) how many fish do you add to the tank at a time. (very confusing since ppl will say "that fish is best in a group of 6 or more" but then you add 6 stress out your tank drive the amonnia through the roof and they all die but 2 - sorry that was a bit of a rant anyways question still stands

 

[Bullrock74]

2. How long does it usally take with a brand new filter and tank? ( I have been up and running for a month and a half and I still have some traces of ammonia about .05 ppm which just never seem to be going away, could it be my tester kit or am I just not waiting long enough)

Cycling a new tank and filter normally takes about a month for a tropical tank (kept around 78 degrees F). Also, some have suggested that the beneficial bacteria needed to complete the cycle stop reproducing if the pH goes below 6. What is your pH?

4. After a cycle is complete (please see above for numbers to tell me that has happened) how many fish do you add to the tank at a time. (very confusing since ppl will say "that fish is best in a group of 6 or more" but then you add 6 stress out your tank drive the amonnia through the roof and they all die but 2 - sorry that was a bit of a rant anyways question still stands

After fishless cycling, most people fully stock their tank all at once, this is one of the advantages of fishless cycling, other than not killing or otherwise harming fish of course.

 

[scubadoo]

Ok

Q1 Cycle is done when your ammonia and nitrite readings are consistently 0 and get to 0 in about 10-12 hours after adding 4-5ppm ammonia. When you're done, your nitrate will be off the chart because you wont have been doing any water changes. If you'r nitrates are not high, you are not cycled. Remember to do a big water change - about 80% just before adding your fish after the end of the cycling process - this is what gets your nitrates back down to an acceptable level.

Q2 Length of cycle varies dramatically from a week or two (if you have a lot of mature filter media) to maybe 9-10 weeks for some.

Q3 Live plants will not affect your fishless cycle. In fact they may help as their root systems can contain some of the nitryfying bacteria that you're trying to encourage.

Q4 When a cycle is complete (and its important that it is complete) you should have enough bacteria in your filter to fully stock your tank in one go. If you dont stock it in one go, then the amount of ammonia produced by a smaller stocking will produce less ammonia, and hence your carefully cultivated bacteria colony will die back because there isn't enough ammonia for them.

 

[dwarfgourami]

1. How can you tell when the cycle is finished ( I heard it's when Ammonia is at 0, Nitrite is at 0, Nitrate is at around 20 and ph is stable) is this info correct

at the end of a fishless cycle, the ammonia and nitrites should be 0, but the nitrates will usually be much higher than 20- that is why you do a big water change (70-80%) at the end of the fishless, to dilute the nitrates

2. How long does it usally take with a brand new filter and tank? ( I have been up and running for a month and a half and I still have some traces of ammonia about .05 ppm which just never seem to be going away, could it be my tester kit or am I just not waiting long enough)

have your nitrites gone up and then gone down? have you got a high nitrate reading?

3. How do live plants effect the cycling process ( I started with fake plants and have added live ones along the way, under the idea that they where going to help out the biological system, was I wrong?)

different schools here; I cycled with plants and noticed no adverse effects, but some people advise against it

4. After a cycle is complete (please see above for numbers to tell me that has happened) how many fish do you add to the tank at a time. (very confusing since ppl will say "that fish is best in a group of 6 or more" but then you add 6 stress out your tank drive the amonnia through the roof and they all die but 2 - sorry that was a bit of a rant anyways question still stands

if the tank has been through the fishless cycle and you add fish as soon as this is completed, you should be able to add pretty well a full tankload. I have ended up adding less in my 3 fishlessly cycled tanks, as I have always wanted at least one species that needs a mature tank- but that's a different matter

 

[Bullrock74]

If you'r nitrates are not high, you are not cycled.

I've never heard that nitrate levels signal the end of cycling before...besides you said it perfectly earlier when you said this:

Cycle is done when your ammonia and nitrite readings are consistently 0 and get to 0 in about 10-12 hours after adding 4-5ppm ammonia.

 

[Tsi_User]

If you'r nitrates are not high, you are not cycled.

I've never heard that nitrate levels signal the end of cycling before...besides you said it perfectly earlier when you said this:

Cycle is done when your ammonia and nitrite readings are consistently 0 and get to 0 in about 10-12 hours after adding 4-5ppm ammonia.

http/thegab.org/Articles/images/WaterQua...trogenCycle.gif

From what i understand and from what I experienced the cycle should follow that path (although the days might differ)

 

[Shelly0518]

Do you know your pH or kH?

I noticed while cycling my tanks that my pH would plummet and then stall out the cycle, with low levels of ammonia but consistently higher levels of nitrites. Check the pH of your tap water and then test the ph of the tank and post your results.

 

[dwarfgourami]

[/quote]

I've never heard that nitrate levels signal the end of cycling before...besides you said it perfectly earlier when you said this:

[/quote]

Well, that would be logical, seeing that nitrites get converted into nitrates and the nitrates (unless eaten by plants) have nowhere to go. Lately, I have heard of a few cases, and myself experienced a situation where the tank appeared to have cycled but levels of nitrate were much lower than expected. Cannot account for this situation, possibly problems with the testing kits. Normally, you would expect to see a spike of nitrates following the fall of nitrites.

 

[Bullrock74]

I have heard of a few cases, and myself experienced a situation where the tank appeared to have cycled but levels of nitrate were much lower than expected.

This why nitrates are not the signal that the cycle has completed.

 

[iroc]

ok here is my full story


I learned about cycling AFTER i bought my 1st set of fish ( 6 neon tetras, and 3 platies) when I 1st started my ph was about 7.2 and I didn't know enough to check anything else.......... Moving forward I get a kit to check ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites a swell as ph, levels were about ammonia .05 nitrites .05 nitrates .20 and ph still about 7.2 water is around 78 degrees.........................another week passes still levels are the same except the ammonia drops to 0 at this point I am doing 20% water changes about every 3-4 days............so i go and buy more fish in fact I think at that point I overstock it and I get live plants, within a couple of weeks most of the fish are dead most of which had some sort of fin rotting look and white spots, the ammonia levels never peeked out but they did return to .05 and the nitrites have always stayed at .05 ph has dropped a little to about 7.0 and the tank is still 78 degrees. When i did my last water change I did notice that the water in the filter (behind where the medis goes) was all white looking, and I forgot to meation i have charcol in my media???



at this point I have 3 tetras, 1 platy and one zebra danio and I don't want to get anything else in there until i am damn sure it's finished but the levels never seem to change and it's been about 1 1/2 months?

 

[Shelly0518]

I just reread your original post, did you mean .5 ppm of ammonia or .05? What brand of ammonia tester do you have? Is it a dipstick or a 1 or 2 bottle tester? Also, check the ammonia level in your tap water then post those results. How long have you been getting ammonia readings and nitrite readings? Do the readings vary? Could you possibly be over feeding or underfiltered?

 

[iroc]

I just reread your original post, did you mean .5 ppm of ammonia or .05? What brand of ammonia tester do you have? Is it a dipstick or a 1 or 2 bottle tester? Also, check the ammonia level in your tap water then post those results. How long have you been getting ammonia readings and nitrite readings? Do the readings vary? Could you possibly be over feeding or underfiltered?

I ment .05 (it has always been this) I have a stick tester, the tap water shows .05 as well. I could be overfeeding (I should say maybe I was) but at this point there are hardly any fish in the tank and I feed them once a day a small pinch of flake

 

[Shelly0518]

When I first started, I used 1 bottle of dipsticks also, I found mine to be inaccurate. If you can afford it, I would recommend buying the bottle testers. In the long run, liquid testers are actually more cost effective. Getting a kit with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH would be a really good investment for you because they are far more accurate. I would recommend the AP Masters Kit, see below for the explanation.

Your in California, right? If the dipsticks are accurate, which I doubt, then I would switch the water conditioner you are using to Prime (no substitute). Prime will convert ammonia into a nontoxic form, thus allowing the cycle to continue but w/o the harmful ammonia. There are 2 kinds of ammonia testers, 1 that measures BOTH toxic and non-toxic ammonia and the other (American Pharm. brand for example) that measures ONLY toxic ammonia. A brand new medicine dropper like for babies, found at pharmacies for cheap would be ideal for adding Prime.

If it was me, this is what I would do:
Buy the new testers and test your tank. If you have an ammonia reading of under .5. Then add 1/2 mL of Prime (that is 1/4 dose for your 20g tank). Wait about 20-30 minutes and test again. At that point, you should not have any ammonia reading. Then post your before and after results.

Could you also post your water change routine with how much water is changed, filter cleaning and gravel vac.?

Hope this helps,
Shelly

 

[iroc]

i might be able to get some testers tomorrow

I change the water about 20% every 3-4 days I do vac the gravel

Ipost after I get it tested

 

[Tsi_User]

I too fist bought test strips and although they SEEMED as accurate as my liquid test kit I somehow managed to get a couple drops of water into their container and it ruined all of the strips so I'd suggest picking up a liquid kit if you can.

On another note, my nitrate levels never really spiked after my amonia/nitrite spike but I account this to the fact that tons of plants were in the tank when it was being cycled.