Fish Sat On Bottom Of Tank Panting Heavily

[lgarvey]

Hi,

I have a 290 litre african malawi mbuna tank with 18 juvenile mbuna fish in it.

They seem very boisterous and happy and all seems to be going well, but recently a bumblebee mbuna started sitting in the corner of the panting heavily and looking distressed. Normally it dashes to the tank for food when I am near it, but it was just sitting there. I immediately tested the water and found that there was a mildly elevated ammonia level of 0.25, so I did a quick water change and it's now fine. Nitrites are 0, nitrates are extremely low less than 5ppm, temperature is 24c, pH is about 8.

The bumblebee seems to have picked up a bit and is now moving around for food, but another fish, a very small electric lab is now sat under a rock on the other side of the tank panting heavily and looking distressed.

Prior to that I got Johanni from the LFS along with a few other fish and all did fine except the Johanni. It was just floating at the top fo the tank. We took it back to the LFS and the guy said it was not breathing out of one of its gills. It was doing all kinds of weird stuff so he exchanged it for another Johanni. That fish has a strange personality. It isn't boisterous, prefers to practice staying still for long periods of time, doesn't bother with any of hte other fish and I've found it diffiucult to feed it. I got that fish about 3 weeks ago.

Now these other two fish seem to be doing not so well. I tried them on different food yesterday, on the recommendation of the LFS. They had a defrosted malawi block which contains main veg but also some shrimp, apparently. And I tried some specialist malawi pellets, which the fish are currently too small to eat. So this could possibly be a causative factor?

I suspect the yellow fish will start picking up soon, as the bumblebee appears to be doing. I can see the BB picking algae off the rocks and swimming around, wihch looks promising.

My question is ... is this a normal thing with fish? Like humans get temporary colds, flu, etc. do fish do the same thing, or is it potentially a sign of something more serious?

L

 

[WILDER]

How long did you have ammonia reading as it can take its toll on fish.
Check his gills over to see if they look pale with excess mucas, or red and inflamed.
Is the fish bloated.
Being pale or darker in colour, being listless and lethagic and not eating can be signs of a bacterial infection.

 

[lgarvey]

Hi,

I checked the ammonia about a week before and it was fine. Everything is in order. I had done a 30% water change the week before as well. One thing, I fed them some new malawi mix from teh pet shop. It was frozen but had partially defrosted in the car. I put it back in the freezer and then defrosted it and fed them the first piece yesterday. This may have something to do with it!?

I actually have a video of the yellow lab which I uploaded ot youtube: http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGc1zSqSFaU

The bumblebee is a bigger fish and is pulling though OK now. But the little lab is really going through it right now.

Nothing on the gils, no strange mucus, no signs of parasites or external signs of ich. It is breathing very heavy and I can see its gills pushing right out with each breath. It also looks pretty distressed. And will only hide under a rock, or lay on the substrate. The bumblebee had exactly the same thing, and as it recovered the lab seemed to begin to suffer. Fingers crossed it doesnt' start affecting the other fish.

Occasionally they will rub against things, sometimes they'll rub aginst things two or three times. They'll very infrequently kind of bounce over something, like a rock or the coral substrate as if to ich themselves. But it's not persistant. For instance the female auratus may rub against a rock, then the sand then a rock again -- which alarmed me at first after what I had read about ich, but then i went see her do it again for ages.

There are no external signs of ich, though I know that they can take time to manifest if it is the problem.

Poor fish.

L

 

[WILDER]

They have some white blobs on them.
I would add a parasite med if there flicking and rubbing.
Increase aeration in the tank.
Any grey patches on the fish.

 

[WILDER]

You can't refreeze frozen foods once they have thawed out fish can get food poisoning.

 

[lgarvey]

Hi,

I will throw away that food just in case. I actually have a video of the fish on yuotube: http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGc1zSqSFaU

This morning it's still panting heavily and hiding away, but it appears a tiny bit more mobile. Maybe it will pull through, like the bumblebee did. All the other fish look fine. I can't notice any grey or white patches. Occasionally they do flick, but it's extremely infrequent. Does this still warrant using some meds on the tank?

L

 

[WILDER]

There was another fish link to yours on u tube was that your fish.
If there not flicking much and you don't think its parasites no don't add the med.
Hiding way and clamped fins means there something wrong.
Has the fish lost weight.

 

[lgarvey]

My video is the one titled 'sick yellow lab.' I uploaded another video previously but replaced it as the first video was 20 mb for a 30 second clip! THere's another clip of a sick yellow lab that is jerking about. My lab hasn't acted like that. It just remained still and panted heavily.

The yellow lab is definitely picking up and starting to move about, the dark band colouration is fading and he's returning to a healthier yellow colour. It's also starting to move about more and is panting less. It's had a rough ride!

However, now a the blue johanni is sat at the bottom of the tank. Right from the start this fish didn't appear in good health. It hardly ever eats, and its belly is sunken. Initially I got several fish from a fish shop and all seemed fine except one fish that was immediated pounced on by the female auratus. She viciously attacked it. I thought it had caused it to go into shock or something, but in reality the fish was sick anyway. I took it back to the fish shop and the guy said it was not breathing properly. He replaced that fish for another one -- I know think taking another fish from that shop was a big mistake.

The new fish faired much better but has a very weird personality. It isn't fiesty like all the other mbuna, despite being an mbuna itself. It has remained really small and hides a lot of teh time, but when it does come out it seems healthy.

Now, however, this fish is stuck to the bottom of the tank and appears quite unwell. Strangely it isn't panting heavily, like the other two fish (whcih are recovering), but it's just sat on the substrate with an incredibly sunken belly. I have included some pictures below.

I tested the water and everything is perfect still: temp 24c, Am 0, Ni 0, Na < 5ppm, pH 8ish. I then went to the LFS to have them double check and they confirmed that the water params are fine. The guy at the LFS immediately asked if I had any plug in air freshners in the room. I have one right next to the tank, so he said this is probably the reason why the fish are falling ill. Seems a bit far fetched, but I'll trust his expertise. I've removed the air freshner and as per his advise inserted some carbon (rowaphos) into the external filter to pick up any chemicals. I'll likely do a big water change to night in case anything could have contaminated the water.

http/www.lyndongarvey.co.uk/recovering-lab.jpg

http/www.lyndongarvey.co.uk/sick-johanni1.jpg
http/www.lyndongarvey.co.uk/sick-johanni2.jpg

L

 

[WILDER]

Swimming in a jerky movement can be flukes and they can get internal flukes aswell.
Sign of flukes are as follows.
Red inflamed gills, or pale gills with excess mucas.
Opaque body with excess slime.
Rapid breathing, or hanging at the surface.
Erratic swimming.
Flicking and rubbing.
Swimming in a jerky movement.
Sores on the body of the fish.
Weight loss.
Sores on the body of the fish.
Spitting food out.

Sunken in belly can be internal parasites signs are.

Being thin or bloated.
Sunken in belly.
Long stringy white poo, clear mucas poo.
Bent spine some times.
Worms prutruding from the anus.
Enlarged anus to red inflamed anus.

 

[lgarvey]

Wilder,

Thanks for all your help. It's really appreciated!

I have tried the small Johanni on different foods, but it's obviously having some problems. Is it worth trying some medication? I could, if necessary, set-up a small quarantine tank to treat the fish in. Currently this fish is just sitting on the bottom of the tank.

The yellow fish is still week but now more lively. Fingers crossed.

I wonder if the Johanni and the fish from that shop, including the first fish I had that was clearly diseased, are the source of the problems?

BTW: The Johanni will try some flake food then spit it out. It never seems to eat. There is plenty of algae in the tank which the other fish graze off all day. So I would imagine the Johanni would at least try to graze off this, and not appear as thin as it currently does.

L

 

[lgarvey]

OK, the Johanni had deteriorated to the point it was lying on its side and breathing infrequently. It appeared to be trying to forcefully breath. Also, like the other fish I had prior to this one, it started spinning around on the spot like it was from the exorcist. Poor fish!

I now know that he had exactly the same problem that the first fish had which I returned to the shop a few weeks ago. But it took a few weeks for this fish to manifest the same symptoms. I will never go to that fish shop again -- they were also quite unhelpful and a bit rude!

I wonder if this is also why the two other fish have been off? But the bumblebee has made a full recovery. The yellow lab is more lively but still looks quite ill. It was a small fish to start with but looks like it has lost some size.

The biggest lesson I have learnt is: don't get fish from a fish shop if there are other dead fish in the tanks. At that LFS I asked them why there were dead fish and they said it's because of overcrowding that some of them naturally die. Yeh right!

Anyway, I purchased some clove oil and vodka and euthanised the fish to put it out of its misery.

Fingers crossed the yellow lab pulls through!

L

 

[WILDER]

What your location as you need a parasite med.

 

[Rick A]

Right! Two things here...

1. You should ALWAYS quarantine new fish - keep in another smaller tank for between two to four weeks. Then if the new fish are ill, have strange behaviour, won't eat for some reason you won't have introduced any problems into your main tank and then won't have to medicate a previously healthy environment. Sorry to say, but you should now put this down to a learning experience and not do the same thing again.

2. If the fish are 'striking' it may just be a symptom of high amonia levels - it will give the fish a slightly burning sensation. Do a partial water change - say 10% - 15% - each day for a few days. If this is the problem and its not Ich or some other parasetic problem then you won't have unnecessarilly medicated an otherwise healthy setup.

For both of the above points, don't medicate unless you are absolutley sure they have a treatable problem - if you don't know this for sure then how do you know what to treat them with! Adding unnecessary chemicals into their environment may just help to weaken the fish and set back their chances of recovery.

Water changes may sort out many problems with most setups. Always bear this in mind and try this approach first, unless they have obvious signs of illness / infection.

OK, take a deeep breath and don't pannick - take some time to look through some of the articles here:

http/www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquai...g1.html#disease

I hope this advice and some of the above links help

 

[lgarvey]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, I have learnt my lesson about putting new fish into the aquarium. I will at the very least make sure all the fish are relatively healthy and are feeding. The last LFS I bought fish from were keen to feed them first and give me the healthiest looking fish.

The am, ni, na, ph and temp are all pretty perfect for mbuna. The tests register 0 am and ni in the tank, and the LFS have confirmed this.

They all look quite healthy now and I cannot tell which lab initialy had the problems! yay

There is a bit of striking. One of the acei was bouncing around the tank for a few minutes and looked agitated and needing to ich, but they all appear fine now with no detectable scratching.

I think I'll just keep up wtih teh 30% water changes and see how that goes. in fact, the acei look healthy as ever and appear to be doing the typical mbuna courtship thing!

Introducing that sick johanni was the initial mistake, I think. I won't allow that to happen again!

L

 

[WILDER]

Ok good luck.