Filters, Why?

[altselgreen]

Hi everyone,

A silly question but here goes. Why use filters? I was just thinking a couple of days ago what is the point in using filters? I mean when fish live in the wild they don't have filters so why do we use them in the aquarium? Is it because of dirtyness of the water? I don't really want to start an argument, so sorry if I came across a bit rude. Just curiosity!

Thanks

Sam

 

[Joeyg2100]

It is to keep the water clean of waiste, ammonia, nitrites. In the wild the lakes and streams that these fish live in have natural filtration. In aquariums there is non of this

 

[PaulEbs]

Hey Sam... It's not a silly question..

In the 'wild' there would be constant water changing, as the water flows from the mountains, down the streams and eventually into the sea. Now obviously, in a home aquarium, it's a bit difficult to keep sloshing the water about and changing it every 5 seconds! So to stop massive amounts of poo contaminating the water, and to keep a flow [like in a river] we use filters.

That's just a short simple answer, I'm sure someone has a more detailed version....

 

[samyboy]

unless you want to change the water on a weekly basis id go for a filter, the water would soon become toxic for the fish and cloudy so you wouldnt see them

 

[dgwebster]

here is the short short simple answer:

cos someone told me to!!

but anyway, in nature there is filters 0 they are just natures filters and not man made versions.

it is ultimately because we do not refresh the water in any way so in order to keep harmful contaminents at a low we use a mechanical machine to force water over surfaces that contain the bacteria to deal with these problems - the water flow of nature normally forces the water over the necessary surfaces. If you can find some way to get your water to go round and round your tank with a constant supply of fresh water too, you would not need this man made solution.

 

[andywg]

It is far more dilluted in the wild. There is nowhere near the same stocking density as you get here, and as such the pollution is dealt with easier. Also, as mentioned, there is a constant water change going on. The amazon dumps up to 300,000,000 litres of water every second into the Atlantic.

 

[altselgreen]

Hey

Thanks for your replies, I understand now

Now obviously, in a home aquarium, it's a bit difficult to keep sloshing the water about and changing it every 5 seconds!

That would be a bit difficult think I might stick with the man made product

Once again Thanks

Sam

 

[dgwebster]

The amazon dumps up to 300,000,000 litres of water every second into the Atlantic.

the second most useless thing i've ever known, that then became useful in a pub quiz.

THE most useless thing i knew that then became useful in a pub quiz was that before world war 2 there were 24 hitlers in the new york phone book. earned a pitcher that did.

 

[Torrean]

plants filter out the nitrogen compounds in the wild. there is a method of keeping fish in which you never change the water don't use a filter either. lots of plants take care of the waste from the fish...don't quote me on that

 

[dgwebster]

plants filter out the nitrogen compounds in the wild. there is a method of keeping fish in which you never change the water don't use a filter either. lots of plants take care of the waste from the fish...don't quote me on that

sorry i just had to quote you

there probably is, but i bet its far from either a) easy or B) better than a filter

 

[andywg]

The plants-as-only-filter works, but only when you have heavy planting with loads of supplements and you stock at a rate of about 10 neons in a 30 gallon (very light stocking).

You can avoid a cycle however as plants prefer to take nitrogen as ammonia than as nitrate (as does algae).

While we are on the organic filter points, you can use algae (somewhat similar to marine macroalgae) as your main filter in FW and it will also take out the need for water changes. The benefit of algae is it grows a lot faster than plants when given fairly good conditions, give it the right conditions and you are away.

 

[guppymonkey]

Even with a huge heavily planted tank there still needs to be water changes. There is absolutely no way to completely imitate nature. Even a small pond has more water than all but the largest of tanks and even in large tanks there is not the same factors affecting it as what happens in nature. The effect of rain, the animals that live in and around the water, streams and other inlets or outlets from the water all effect the water conditions. It is really impossible to fully recreate nature in a closed environment so there has to be some kind of way to cover the missing elements and so water changes are needed. Even a tank with a good filter on it there should be a partial water change about every 7 days or so. Some people suggest a month but that is sort of like showering once a month, it would be better than nothing but not that awesome still.

 

[Bignose]

The plants-as-only-filter works, but only when you have heavy planting with loads of supplements and you stock at a rate of about 10 neons in a 30 gallon (very light stocking).

You can avoid a cycle however as plants prefer to take nitrogen as ammonia than as nitrate (as does algae).

While we are on the organic filter points, you can use algae (somewhat similar to marine macroalgae) as your main filter in FW and it will also take out the need for water changes. The benefit of algae is it grows a lot faster than plants when given fairly good conditions, give it the right conditions and you are away.

Read Diana Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. She details how to design and maintain a 'natural' tank with no filters, but heavily planted. And she does not have to lightly stock. The pictures in her book, of her tanks she's kept for over 4 years, shows one with 20 some rainbowfish in a 55 gallon. Another has 30-40 guppies. Light stocking is not necessary for this method to work.

Like as said above, plants take up ammonia as their preferred nitrogen source, so as long as the plants are healthy, the tank is instantly cycled. The real trick Diana suggests is to use floating plants (like duckweed or water lettuce) or emergent plants so that they have plenty of CO2.

All that said, it is far easier to maintain a healthy filter than healthy plants. A lot of the intuition we may have gained by growing terrestial plants often does not translate to aquatic plants, there is a lot new to learn. But the info is out there. She moderates another forum on an aquatic plant sight, google it and you can find her giving advice as sort of a preview to her book.

 

[andywg]

Even with a huge heavily planted tank there still needs to be water changes. There is absolutely no way to completely imitate nature. Even a small pond has more water than all but the largest of tanks and even in large tanks there is not the same factors affecting it as what happens in nature. The effect of rain, the animals that live in and around the water, streams and other inlets or outlets from the water all effect the water conditions. It is really impossible to fully recreate nature in a closed environment so there has to be some kind of way to cover the missing elements and so water changes are needed. Even a tank with a good filter on it there should be a partial water change about every 7 days or so. Some people suggest a month but that is sort of like showering once a month, it would be better than nothing but not that awesome still.

Actually, some tanks DO succeed with next to no water changes.

I have seen members of other forums keep plant filter tanks and change the water about twice per year, and some marines have been kept for 6 years without a single water change.

Bignose, I didn't realise it was possible to stock that hevily, all the people I have seen have stocked lightly. Though I agree on floating plants and emergent ones, I grow floating on all my tanks in an attempt to aid nutrient export in the theory that they can extract CO2 from the atmosphere (useful since my wet dry filters would gas any CO2 straight out of the water)