Brackish, 50 Gallon Breeder Tank

[swack]

Ideall, I'd like to stock this with a puffer, possibly a moray and an archer or two...would this fit/work?

 

[nmonks]

Possibly; depends on the species involved. Moray eels tend to be somewhat aggressive, and only really work well as community fish in big tanks with robust, fast-moving species. Some people would argue that they are never entirely safe. Archers suffer from the problem of being difficult to identify. One of the three common species is definitely a low-end brackish to freshwater fish (T. microlepis) and consequently not a good companion for mid- to high-end brackish fishes like green spotted puffers or morays.

So, an alternative might include T. microlepis, one of the spiny eels or spaghetti eels, and one or more figure-8 puffers. This combination would work at SG 1.003-1.005 and be much more certainly safe. Macrognathus siamensis is a reasonably common, sociable spiny eel, but you could alternatively keep a single Mastacembelus armatus/flavus if you wanted something bigger but more territorial. You could also add cichlids like orange chromides to this combination, or even giant sailfin mollies if you can find them. Giant sailfins are awesome fish (imagine a 20 cm molly!) but sadly not commonly traded. Knight gobies would work nicely, too.

Cheers, Neale

Ideall, I'd like to stock this with a puffer, possibly a moray and an archer or two...would this fit/work?

 

[Matty P]

So, an alternative might include T. microlepis, one of the spiny eels or spaghetti eels, and one or more figure-8 puffers. This combination would work at SG 1.003-1.005 and be much more certainly safe.
Cheers, Neale

That sounds like a good option to me

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Dont mix eels and puffers. I have both. Ive never been stupid enoug to try it but, dont. The puffer with kill the moray. The puffer will rip chunks out of the eel and the eel will get a massive infection. Morays are not agressive fish they are very docile. They are just predatory. Puffers are highly agressive. Also a moray will need a very large tank. 50 gallons would barely be room for an eel. To keep a puffer with an eel you would need at least 300 gallons. even then the moray still would not be able to escape the puffer. Puffers have to be kept alone. Morays will fit into your average brackish comunity. Morays will eat small fish and they can be a little terratorial, but they can not stand up to a puffer. Puffers and eels are my passion in fish keeping, it is cruel to put these fish together.

 

[Lhutch]

wouldnt recomend a green spoted puffer unless the tank is just for him because they are happiest alone ,morays are fun and theres a lot of option

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

What im try to get at here is why bother to do what your trying to do? Keeping pufferfish isnt rewarding if you have to watch your puffer mutilate other fishes. Most fish pick on morays. A guppy could kill a moray. A guppy could pick at the moray's slime coat and make the moray extremely vulnerable to infections. A puffer could kill just about any fish. Ive seen a green spotted puffer kill a Mawali Eye Biting Cichlid.

 

[nmonks]

Hang on a second... this depends on the pufferfish being kept. A figure-8 is pretty benign, and in a tank with lots of hiding places spaghetti eels will be fine.

In a high-end system, moray eels and dog-face puffers (Arothron hispidus) would make a fine combo. They're routinely kept together in marine tanks and there's no reason to imagine they won't work out happily in a brackish system. Arothron hispidus is a gentle giant in some ways, and provided it's left alone, generally keeps out of trouble.

Cheers, Neale

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

A figure eight is not compatible with any moray. A figure eight belongs at a mutch lower salinity, almost freshwater. A moray prefers near marine conditions.

More to the piont, how would a Arothron hispidus and a freshwater moray fit in a 50 gallon? Once again why bother, it is a lot more work to house puffs with eels. They only puffers that could work with a moray in a 50 gal. would be those in the genus Canthigaster. Then yould need a fish-only saltwater tank or very high end brackish. Freshwater Morays need saltwater or high end brackish anyway. A figure eight does not tolerate the high salinity needs of a moray anyway. Also last i checked Swak asked about a moray not a spiny eel. Spiny eels arent eels.

 

[ac106]

Marine/Freshwater

My man, you over-react and post hysterically way too much. You need to calm down.

I have kept the following puffers: South Americans, Figure 8's, GSP, and a Stars and Stripes and I have NEVER seen the sheer aggression you are talking about. While a am sure that some individual fish are insane, it certainly does not apply to the who species.

The whole idea that puffers can never be kept with any other fish is simply incorrect.

While it’s true of some species like Mbu and of nasty individual fish, it’s overly broad and unhelpful.

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

The piont i am stressing is 50 gallons! A moray at least needs 50 gallons. To keep puffers with other fish the tank has to be lightly stocked. Overstocking inevitably leads to agression.
Seriously, pufferfishes are nippy. Morays dont have fins that grow back. Its okay for a guppy to loose a chunk of its tail fin but it is different for a moray. It only takes one bite from a puffer to kill a moray. Morays get infected really easily. Pufferfishes allways always win. The eel will likely try and eat the puffer and most puffers are highly toxic. I currently have a figure eight puffer and a moray in to seperate tanks. Its far better to keep them seperate. Morays can be very fragile. It is really necessary to keep them seperate to enjoy them to thier fullest. I really wonder why anyone would want these two fish together anyway. i gurintee if a large moray bumps into a puffer while its sleeping its going to taste test it. Many puffers are quite toxic. Green Spotted Puffers even secret toxins through thier skin. Puffers and true eels dont mix. Perhaps a South American Puffer, an Archer Fish and some species of spiny eel would be a good choice. Really puffers, eels and archers have special needs. It would be difficult to acheive this in only 50 gallons. There are so many disadvantages to keeping morays and puffers together in a small tank. Once again why bother, it borders on being a irresponsible aquariust. Also it is just kind of immature.

 

[swack]

Just to clarify, I am not a newbie to fish keeping, I have successfully bred piranhas numerous times. I wanted to try my hand at a brackish tank and selected a few species that interested me, in no way am I going to purchase any of those fish tommorow or even next week, I was simply looking for decent stocking ideas. What kind of eel would you recomend and where could i go about getting one ( I would like to stray away from the spiney eels if at all possible) and what fish would be good with an eel?

 

[Marine/Freshwater?]

Your best bet would be one moray and one Monodactylus sp and one Scat. NO Puffer. Eel like fishes seem to frighten puffers and make them go beserk. But perhaps a saltwater sharpnose puffer would work though. Then you would need a salinity above 1.015. A dogface puffer or a puffer in its genus would never fit in only 50 gallons. You have to treat brackish as a specialized saltwater tank. Be mature, stock very lightly.

 

[nmonks]

Seriously my friend, putting *one* scat and *one* mono is a 50 (US?) gallon tank isn't a great idea. Scats and monos are schooling fish, and while monos are sometimes a bit spiteful to each other, they aren't nearly so nervous in groups as when kept on their own. With that said, a group of 4-6 would need something around 200 US gallons. Scats can do fine on their own, but they're huge beasts, and in a 50 US gallon (190 litre) tank it would hardly have space to turn around.

Why not go with SG 1.010, fill the thing with tufa rock rubble for the moray, and leave some swimming space at the front for something else. A juvenile Arothron hispidus would be fine provided it matched the moray in size. After a couple of years, trade it in. Since A. hispidus prefers (though doesn't need) marine conditions as an adult, this is perhaps the best solution for the fish, too.

There are some other peaceful brackish water puffers but getting them is more or less difficult, and depends on how good you are at identifying fish. At up to 30 cm, Arothron immaculatus is one option. It's pretty tolerant of tankmates. It's main failing is lack of colour (basically grey). Arothron manilensis is another puffer of similar size but rather better looking. Not that common in the trade, though. Again, you'd need to trade these in once they were about half grown. I'd say a 15 cm puffer would be about as big as I'd want to keep in a 50 US gallon tank.

Among the sharp-nose puffers, Canthigaster compressa is a brackish to marine example. It's a social species to some extent, normally found in pairs. Might be a bit small for life with an adult moray though.

To be honest though, I'd recommend against moray eels as "community fish", end of story. They just aren't all that reliable. Regardless of how peaceful or not their tankmates might be, morays sometimes just turn around and eat them. Spaghetti eels (Moringua raitaborua for example) are scaled down, insect-eating moray eels, Much easier to keep in groups and completely peaceful. Could easily be kept in a lightly brackish water tank with South American puffers (seen this combo, looked good) or figure-8 puffers. Would certainly work well with Canthigaster compressa if you raised the SG a bit and wanted some colour.

Cheers, Neale

Your best bet would be one moray and one Monodactylus sp and one Scat. NO Puffer. Eel like fishes seem to frighten puffers and make them go beserk. But perhaps a saltwater sharpnose puffer would work though. Then you would need a salinity above 1.015. A dogface puffer or a puffer in its genus would never fit in only 50 gallons. You have to treat brackish as a specialized saltwater tank. Be mature, stock very lightly.