Hi there. I'm new to these forums so forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this. This is probably too much detail, but put simply I have a rare and fragile wild-caught fish that has stopped eating (or perhaps has parasites). I can't really find anything detailed about these fish online, so if anybody has one or could direct me to a good person to talk to (even something extreme like a university professor...) I would really appreciate some help.
I have a medium sized (4-5") Blue Panaque (L239). I bought her (i think its a female) 5-6 months ago and put her in a 30 gallon tall tank that contained Angelfish, Swordtails and 2 male mexican sailfin mollies.
The water in that tank was never really perfect, as it was just a place to put refugees from my big tank. I placed the L239 in this tank temporarilly figuring I would move her to an appropriate environment once I found out if she would be compatible with common pl*cos.
All of my tanks are heavilly planted. The 30 gallon tank contained 2 types of amazon swords, cabomba furcata, cabomba caroliniana, Bacopa monnieri
Bacopa caroliniana, and Ludwigia repens, dwarf papyrus and some giant vals. I put an old aquarium decoration in the tank (the type of thing you would put in a kids beginner tank) and she immediately went and hid. I never did see her eat, however after introducting her to the tank the bacopa, papyrus and ludwigia immediately disappeared. At this point i figured she was a plant eater (never have found a proper diet listed for this fish online) and kept restocking the tank with bacopa and ludwigia... which would immeidately disappear.
Water quality was not that great. Nitrates about 40 ppm, nitite + amonia at 0, GH about 50, KH varied between 80 and 120, PH 8.0 - 9.0
About 4 weeks ago, the common pl*co (still very small) in my 16 gallon tank started getting very aggressive to the point where my plants were being shredded during the day and the other inhabitants (swordtails, guppies) not being able to sleep at night.
I decided to switch the two pl*cos. I brought over the little cave decoration as well, so the L239 would have a place to hide.
The 16 gallon tank is heavily planted, with 6wpg of light and C02 reactor. The plant species in the tank when I put the L239 in were:
Sagittaria platyphylla
Sagittaria subulata
Ludwigia repens
Bacopa monnieri
Bacopa caroliniana
Phyllanthus Fluitans
Echinodorus bleheri
Echinodorus Tennellus
Corkscrew Val, Twisted Val, American Val
About a week after that I added the following (to replace what the common pl*co destroyed):
Lobelia Cardinalis
Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis
Egeria Najas [got rid of the Egeria Densa]
Mayaca fluviatilis
Alternanthera Reineckii (Telanthera Rosefolia)
Duckweed
This past week I added in the following
Dwarf Ludwigia (sp unknown)
Red Bacopa (sp Unknown)
Riccia fluitans
The water parameters are as follows:
Nirate 0
Nitite 0
Amonia 0
GH 40 ppm
KH 300
PH 8.4
Temp: 80F
Within 1 week of being put in the 16 gallon tank, she left the cave and never returned. She has spent the entire last 3 weeks attached to the side glass, on the side of the tank that has the cabomba plants which grow very dense under 6wpg. I think she may be wanting shade (pl*cos like to hide) but she won't go into any cave decorations of any type... she likes to stay out in the plants.
I have never seen this fish eat. However, she has always had a nice full belly and and I assumed the disappearing plants (same species in both tanks) were here doing. This past week however, the Ludwigia and Bacopa are all thriving, doubling in size. And it is just today that I noticed she was not doing well.
I tend to overfeed the fish in this tank because it is where I keep my breeding swordtails. However, there are 5 different species of snails and ghost shrimp in the tank, and the bottom has always been clean. With the cabomba and duckweed in the tank, there has never been any nitrate. I regularly change the water to keep the KH up (for the swordtails). At night there is always a little extra food on the bottom. In the morning...there isn't. I would think if she was just a bottom scavenger, she would eat whatever is on the bottom.
The only things I have changed since she was put in the 16 gallon tank were the removal of the cave decorations, addition of the new plants last week, and I removed the glass top two weeks ago hoping that the extra light would get the cabomba to flower again.
None of the other fish in the tank are ill. I have to prune the cabomba twice a week or they feel a little crowded, but other than that all of the other fish are completely happy. The swordtails are not picking on the pl*co as they are well fed. I have had problems in the past with adult swordtails eating tankmates when they got hungry... but these are overfed and are very peaceful.
The only thing i can think of (besides opening the top) is the new red bacopa plants. I have had it in the tank before but the swordtails devour it and its almost gone. When the lid was on the tank, the temp would sometimes fluctuate up to 82F in the afternoon when the cabomba was growing across the top. With the lid off, it stays a constant 80F regardless of the plants.
I know that Phyllanthus Fluitans is a relative of the milkweeds and secretes a substance that kills insects. There were a few of these in the tank when I added the pl*co, but I added more because the swordtails eat it. Is it possible that this plant is not safe for the pl*co? It is native to most of south america so I would figure it would be safe. Could one of these plants (bacopa/phyllanthus) be making the pl*co ill?
I know that the plants are most likely not the cause of the problem, but it seems like I noticed her sunken belly soon after putting in the new plants.
If not, is there anyway to get her eating again? It doesn't seem as though anybody actually knows what these fish eat. If anybody has one of these, could you share with me any feeding tips?
Right now I feed the other fish in the tank:
Regularly:
Nutrafin Livebearer Food
HBH Soft & Moist Spirulina Breeder Conditioner
HBH Veggie Flakes (containing Spirulina, Spinach, Green Pea, Alfalfa, Romaine Lettuce, Zucchini, Kale, Carrot) [my other two pl*cos literally come to the top of the tank and eat this out of my hand]
and occasionally:
Tetra ColorBits
Nutrafin Complete Pellet Food
Bio Blend Tropical Pellet Food
Live Tubifex Worms
Live Brine Shrimp
Frozen Peas
Bottom Feeders [snails/shrimp] get:
Top Fin shrimp Pellets
Wardley's bottom feeder tablets
Hikari algae wafers [when i can find them]
I have tried cucombers, carrots, russet potatos, and other random veggies from the fridge. Never saw the L239 eat any of it. I do know that my other 2 common pl*cos won't touch anything but the algae wafers and the HBH food which i feed them at the top of the tank.
The common pl*co in my large tank has recently aquired a taste for live tubifex worms. I feed my mollies and angelfish the worms using a cone placed at the top of the tank. the pl*co has now begun chasing away the angelfish and will even fight with the mollies to get at the worms, which he sucks right out of the cone. A 12" pl*co fighting with a fullgrown female sailfin mollys over food is a pretty violent thing to watch. Having been bitten by hungry sailfins before, I know its not pleasant at all, and the pl*co must really like the worms to put up with it.
Is it possible that the L239 needs worms? I feed live worms to the swordtails when I have leftovers, but I don't do it every day because I don't want to risk putting possibly diseased food into such a small tank. If the L239 needs live worms, should I feed them at the top like I feed the angelfish (in a cone) or should I just dump them into the tank?
When feeding the L239, should I try to put the food near her, or should I just drop it in and let her find it. She doesn't seem to want to come to the top of the tank like my other two pl*cos do, and she seems to be very scared of me unlike my common pl*cos. I've now tried frozen bloodworm, frozen brine shrimp, and frozen beef heart. Put the little cubes in last night near her... but she wants to stay stuck to the glass and will not go down to the bottom. she does move around the tank... but only when I walk by... and she does it by swiming sideways along the glass...never going down to the bottom. Even though the tank is very heavilly planted (its a jungle), the plants are growing such that they are forming a canopy far above the actual substrate. This fish is so small that there is more than enough room to cruise around the bottom, with 5 or 6 inches of vertical clearance before you actually get to the bulk of the plants.
If anybody has any advice on getting my fish back to a healthy condition let me know. I am assuming that its diet related but it could be anything. If you have any ideas, please let me know. I would hate to see a wild caught fish pass on because of poor care on my part.
If the tank mates matter to anybody:
2 ottos (sp unknown)
6 Apple Snails (2 Marisa cornuarietis/4 Pomacea bridgesii)
? MTS
? Pond Snails
5 Red Ramshorn Snails
? Ghost Shrimp
3 female swordtails, 1 male, 10 or so babies
5 or 6 guppies + recent batch of fry
[all of these species existed in the first tank, where she appeared to be eating.]
I am trying to think of everything here, I know this post is way too long. I saw on a different web page that blue panaques may actually be closely related to zebras and therefore need cooler water and very strong current. Right now I have my filter (appropriate for a 20 gallon tank, but in a 16 gallon tank) setup so that the water doesn't disturb the surface of the tank (even though it is a hang on the back filter). I do have an air line in the tank to provide extra oxygen for the shrimp. I've tested for oxygen and it is saturated for that temperature of water. Because of the way the filter is setup, there isn't much current in the tank. I have a 300 gallon per hour canister filter that I could easilly put in the tank (and I can adjust the outflow volume of this filter).... should I try to put that on the tank instead? I'm thinking that 300gph would be overkill in a 16 gallon tank... if someone has one of these fish, do you keep them in a still water environment or a high current environment?
I have a medium sized (4-5") Blue Panaque (L239). I bought her (i think its a female) 5-6 months ago and put her in a 30 gallon tall tank that contained Angelfish, Swordtails and 2 male mexican sailfin mollies.
The water in that tank was never really perfect, as it was just a place to put refugees from my big tank. I placed the L239 in this tank temporarilly figuring I would move her to an appropriate environment once I found out if she would be compatible with common pl*cos.
All of my tanks are heavilly planted. The 30 gallon tank contained 2 types of amazon swords, cabomba furcata, cabomba caroliniana, Bacopa monnieri
Bacopa caroliniana, and Ludwigia repens, dwarf papyrus and some giant vals. I put an old aquarium decoration in the tank (the type of thing you would put in a kids beginner tank) and she immediately went and hid. I never did see her eat, however after introducting her to the tank the bacopa, papyrus and ludwigia immediately disappeared. At this point i figured she was a plant eater (never have found a proper diet listed for this fish online) and kept restocking the tank with bacopa and ludwigia... which would immeidately disappear.
Water quality was not that great. Nitrates about 40 ppm, nitite + amonia at 0, GH about 50, KH varied between 80 and 120, PH 8.0 - 9.0
About 4 weeks ago, the common pl*co (still very small) in my 16 gallon tank started getting very aggressive to the point where my plants were being shredded during the day and the other inhabitants (swordtails, guppies) not being able to sleep at night.
I decided to switch the two pl*cos. I brought over the little cave decoration as well, so the L239 would have a place to hide.
The 16 gallon tank is heavily planted, with 6wpg of light and C02 reactor. The plant species in the tank when I put the L239 in were:
Sagittaria platyphylla
Sagittaria subulata
Ludwigia repens
Bacopa monnieri
Bacopa caroliniana
Phyllanthus Fluitans
Echinodorus bleheri
Echinodorus Tennellus
Corkscrew Val, Twisted Val, American Val
About a week after that I added the following (to replace what the common pl*co destroyed):
Lobelia Cardinalis
Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis
Egeria Najas [got rid of the Egeria Densa]
Mayaca fluviatilis
Alternanthera Reineckii (Telanthera Rosefolia)
Duckweed
This past week I added in the following
Dwarf Ludwigia (sp unknown)
Red Bacopa (sp Unknown)
Riccia fluitans
The water parameters are as follows:
Nirate 0
Nitite 0
Amonia 0
GH 40 ppm
KH 300
PH 8.4
Temp: 80F
Within 1 week of being put in the 16 gallon tank, she left the cave and never returned. She has spent the entire last 3 weeks attached to the side glass, on the side of the tank that has the cabomba plants which grow very dense under 6wpg. I think she may be wanting shade (pl*cos like to hide) but she won't go into any cave decorations of any type... she likes to stay out in the plants.
I have never seen this fish eat. However, she has always had a nice full belly and and I assumed the disappearing plants (same species in both tanks) were here doing. This past week however, the Ludwigia and Bacopa are all thriving, doubling in size. And it is just today that I noticed she was not doing well.
I tend to overfeed the fish in this tank because it is where I keep my breeding swordtails. However, there are 5 different species of snails and ghost shrimp in the tank, and the bottom has always been clean. With the cabomba and duckweed in the tank, there has never been any nitrate. I regularly change the water to keep the KH up (for the swordtails). At night there is always a little extra food on the bottom. In the morning...there isn't. I would think if she was just a bottom scavenger, she would eat whatever is on the bottom.
The only things I have changed since she was put in the 16 gallon tank were the removal of the cave decorations, addition of the new plants last week, and I removed the glass top two weeks ago hoping that the extra light would get the cabomba to flower again.
None of the other fish in the tank are ill. I have to prune the cabomba twice a week or they feel a little crowded, but other than that all of the other fish are completely happy. The swordtails are not picking on the pl*co as they are well fed. I have had problems in the past with adult swordtails eating tankmates when they got hungry... but these are overfed and are very peaceful.
The only thing i can think of (besides opening the top) is the new red bacopa plants. I have had it in the tank before but the swordtails devour it and its almost gone. When the lid was on the tank, the temp would sometimes fluctuate up to 82F in the afternoon when the cabomba was growing across the top. With the lid off, it stays a constant 80F regardless of the plants.
I know that Phyllanthus Fluitans is a relative of the milkweeds and secretes a substance that kills insects. There were a few of these in the tank when I added the pl*co, but I added more because the swordtails eat it. Is it possible that this plant is not safe for the pl*co? It is native to most of south america so I would figure it would be safe. Could one of these plants (bacopa/phyllanthus) be making the pl*co ill?
I know that the plants are most likely not the cause of the problem, but it seems like I noticed her sunken belly soon after putting in the new plants.
If not, is there anyway to get her eating again? It doesn't seem as though anybody actually knows what these fish eat. If anybody has one of these, could you share with me any feeding tips?
Right now I feed the other fish in the tank:
Regularly:
Nutrafin Livebearer Food
HBH Soft & Moist Spirulina Breeder Conditioner
HBH Veggie Flakes (containing Spirulina, Spinach, Green Pea, Alfalfa, Romaine Lettuce, Zucchini, Kale, Carrot) [my other two pl*cos literally come to the top of the tank and eat this out of my hand]
and occasionally:
Tetra ColorBits
Nutrafin Complete Pellet Food
Bio Blend Tropical Pellet Food
Live Tubifex Worms
Live Brine Shrimp
Frozen Peas
Bottom Feeders [snails/shrimp] get:
Top Fin shrimp Pellets
Wardley's bottom feeder tablets
Hikari algae wafers [when i can find them]
I have tried cucombers, carrots, russet potatos, and other random veggies from the fridge. Never saw the L239 eat any of it. I do know that my other 2 common pl*cos won't touch anything but the algae wafers and the HBH food which i feed them at the top of the tank.
The common pl*co in my large tank has recently aquired a taste for live tubifex worms. I feed my mollies and angelfish the worms using a cone placed at the top of the tank. the pl*co has now begun chasing away the angelfish and will even fight with the mollies to get at the worms, which he sucks right out of the cone. A 12" pl*co fighting with a fullgrown female sailfin mollys over food is a pretty violent thing to watch. Having been bitten by hungry sailfins before, I know its not pleasant at all, and the pl*co must really like the worms to put up with it.
Is it possible that the L239 needs worms? I feed live worms to the swordtails when I have leftovers, but I don't do it every day because I don't want to risk putting possibly diseased food into such a small tank. If the L239 needs live worms, should I feed them at the top like I feed the angelfish (in a cone) or should I just dump them into the tank?
When feeding the L239, should I try to put the food near her, or should I just drop it in and let her find it. She doesn't seem to want to come to the top of the tank like my other two pl*cos do, and she seems to be very scared of me unlike my common pl*cos. I've now tried frozen bloodworm, frozen brine shrimp, and frozen beef heart. Put the little cubes in last night near her... but she wants to stay stuck to the glass and will not go down to the bottom. she does move around the tank... but only when I walk by... and she does it by swiming sideways along the glass...never going down to the bottom. Even though the tank is very heavilly planted (its a jungle), the plants are growing such that they are forming a canopy far above the actual substrate. This fish is so small that there is more than enough room to cruise around the bottom, with 5 or 6 inches of vertical clearance before you actually get to the bulk of the plants.
If anybody has any advice on getting my fish back to a healthy condition let me know. I am assuming that its diet related but it could be anything. If you have any ideas, please let me know. I would hate to see a wild caught fish pass on because of poor care on my part.
If the tank mates matter to anybody:
2 ottos (sp unknown)
6 Apple Snails (2 Marisa cornuarietis/4 Pomacea bridgesii)
? MTS
? Pond Snails
5 Red Ramshorn Snails
? Ghost Shrimp
3 female swordtails, 1 male, 10 or so babies
5 or 6 guppies + recent batch of fry
[all of these species existed in the first tank, where she appeared to be eating.]
I am trying to think of everything here, I know this post is way too long. I saw on a different web page that blue panaques may actually be closely related to zebras and therefore need cooler water and very strong current. Right now I have my filter (appropriate for a 20 gallon tank, but in a 16 gallon tank) setup so that the water doesn't disturb the surface of the tank (even though it is a hang on the back filter). I do have an air line in the tank to provide extra oxygen for the shrimp. I've tested for oxygen and it is saturated for that temperature of water. Because of the way the filter is setup, there isn't much current in the tank. I have a 300 gallon per hour canister filter that I could easilly put in the tank (and I can adjust the outflow volume of this filter).... should I try to put that on the tank instead? I'm thinking that 300gph would be overkill in a 16 gallon tank... if someone has one of these fish, do you keep them in a still water environment or a high current environment?
