Big Problems With My Fish Tank What The Hell Is Wrong?!?!

[mrscullen5373]

I apologize in advance for the length of my topic I always try and make sure i tell you guys all the information I can so that is why.

I am currently in hospital and so i havent been able to see anyone about this problem. However i have utterly RANSACKED the internet, library and i have called specialists many times about it. There is nothing (that i can find) about this on the internet NOTHING atall like it. The many different specialist are confused too and dont know. You lot are my last result!!! Ok, so the fish go really thin loose there appetite swim very slowly and rock. Them after about 2 or 3 days they sink to the bottom of the tank and only hang about there, still for maybe about 30mins. Then they go onto there sides and they then struggle around, trying to get back upright by swimming in spirals around the tank. Eventually after another 30mins or so they almost 'give in' and they then end up on there side in a sharp 'v' shape shuffling around the floor of the tank. The awful thing is that this stage has before gone on from between overnight - 2days! Before they finally get still, even then they are still alive but still and breathing heavily on there side for atleast a few hour before they atlast die, poor things. However i have also had different things happen but they still die in a similar sort of way. The other way seemed to happen with only my platys. Its starts off the same way they tend to stay stationary mainly and dont eat, but instead of going matchstick thin they bloat out like balloon mollys. Then they sink to the bottom but unlike the other 'way' they dont struggle they immediatly go onto there side and shuffle about the bottom slowly, then, quicker than the other way they stay still but breathe heavily. And again unlike the other way they die, but alot quicker than the other way. But when they are dead all there scales stick out really spikey and they stay massive like they are gonna pop. But with the other way the dead fish look no different, infact if they werent so thin i would say it was a healthy fish. The specialists say that the second way sounds like dropsy, which i agreed with, so they gave me some meds and it hasnt done anything. I am flipping out.

Here is some of the important information. I have a 65litre tropical freshwater fish tank, with the correct equiptment, a filter and heater. All water qualities are better than perfect - i have my own kit and i have tried 7 different types of kits and had several specialists test the water too. Every time the same, perfect. I havent changed anything i use in the tank since it was set up and i use the same for all my tanks anyway.
These are the fish i had - 8 platys, 10 guppies, 2 honey gourami, and 2 agazizzi cory cats. 22 fish. Now i have only guppy and 1 cory left.
Here is a really interesting thing. Every time i change the water atleast one fish died and every time i feed them the symptom move forward and sometimes a fish dies. HELP ME! i cant bare hearing about my pets suffering and dying like this!
my tank has been set up for approaching a year now. I have never had any problems. Oh and another thing the other of the two agazizzi cory died differently. In a really astonishing way. It suddenly rushed to the water line they flopped onto its side ontop of my filter. It just gasped for hours then fell to the bottom and here's the horrible bit. On either side of its head - like near where our temples would be - there was like a splintered crack which was blood red like she was actually bleeding.
Although this particular tank has only been set up a year i have had many tropical fish tanks before and the rest of my family are just as experienced as me if not more so. I no everyone probably says this, but, i am obsessed with fish keeping, infact i over care my fish and i am always going in a flap about the tinyest things. I care for my fish so much bodi crushes me to see them in this state, as i have never really had any issues over all these years of fish keeping.

My ph levels are all excellent and my temperature is at 26oC. Everything i have in this tank is used in all my other tanks and its the same with the type of fish. Never had any issues. I have already been down all these roads and its always a dead end. NOTHING LINKS IN!!! grrrrr!!! Its so annoying and upsetting.

Sorry for the epic topic!!
ty Xx

Oh and I am not sure how but is there any way that someone could tell me how to get 'Wilder' to read and help me with this?
He/she was reccomended to me.
Thanks

 

[WILDER]

Your tanks overstocked.

The symtoms are pointing to bacteria infection, internal parasites.
Need to also look at what test kits you are using.

Need to ask lots of questions to find out which desease it is.

First thing to look at is bad water quality, so need the test kit you have used.
As your tanks overstocked.

Are the fish going thin due to not eating. Or going thin then stop eating.
Check the anus of the fish to see if it's enlarged or red and inflamed.
Any worms prutruding from the anus.
Any fish have sunken in bellys.
Lost any fish to bent spines.
Do any fish swim on there sides.

The crack on the corys head could it of been an injury, due to something sharp in the tank.

Also do any of the fish show any of these signs.
Flicking and rubbing, darting, excess mucas, red inflamed gills, or pale gills with excess mucas, swimming in a jerky movement.

 

[WILDER]

What does it look like when your fish go to the toilet.
Seen any black colouration, or black spots on the fish.

 

[WILDER]

Reread the post again.
It's pointing towards a severe bacterial infection, if the fish went thin throw not eating.
Fish tb, internal parasites.

Need to answer more of the question.

Going to get you some info.

On tb, bacterial infection, internal parasites.


The third type of infection produced by Aeromonas is by no means the least. This form is often the most virulent (potent) and can be rapidly fatal. This insidious form does not produce any noticeable external ulcers. The most notable feature is a behavioral change in which the infected fish generally become listless and lethargic. Some fish may lose color or appear darker. The fish do not feed, frequently seem off balance and may sink to the bottom laying on their sides. The course of the disease is rapid, and by the time the behavioral changes are noticed, the entire population of a tank may succumb, sometimes in a day or so. This is an internal infection, with the bacteria being found in the kidneys and blood of these fish. The bacteria produce potent toxins that account for the severity of the disease.<br /><br /><br />FISH TB LINK<br />http/www.fishyportal.com/cgi-bin/pub/diag?c=v&id=49<br /><br

A link to fish tb.
http/www.torrens.org.uk/NatHist/Aqua/disease/tb.html

Camallanus



Symptoms:

When the fish is stationary, deep red worms can be seen protruding from the anal pore. They are only visible when the fish is still because the worms retreat into the intestine at the fish�s slightest movement. Other signs may include an inflamed and enlarged anus. In severe infestations, the fish may become emaciated and spinal curvature may also occur.



Cause:

The parasitic worms Camallanus Cotti and Camallanus lacustris. These small, livebearing parasitic worms attach to the intestinal walls and rectum with pinchers. The worm�s grip is so tight that any attempts to remove it forcibly will rip away tissue from the intestinal wall. The worm�s pinching causes ischemia (reduced blood flow) to that part of the intestine. In time, the tissue to that part of the intestine will die, at which time the worm will migrate to another part of the intestine. This causes perforations throughout the intestine, which allows other pathogens to gain entry. If the fish is not treated, either the parasite or bacterial will kill the fish. Camallanus infestations occur most often in livebearing fish such as Guppies and Mollies, though infection is possible in all fish. Camallanus infestations are contagious. All fish, including those not yet showing visible symptoms, as well as the aquarium, should be treated.



Treatment:

Treat with Internal Parasite Guard, Pipzine, Disco-Worm, Trichlorfon or Fluke-Tabs as well as a medicated food to prevent a bacterial infection.

Dropsy can be caused by fish tb, internal parasites.

 

[mrscullen5373]

Thankyou wilder for posting so quickly.
Firstly I want to let you know that the list of fish i put down is a list of all the fish in total. I only had about 10 or 11 in the tank at one time, when fish died I talked to people in fish stores (maiden head aquatics etc) and other people and they said it was fine to re-stock. I will never listen to anyone like that again without double checking. the point is i dont think it can really be over stocking, even though i have considered it myself.
Anyway. Here is a list of the questions you asked and my answers.

The symtoms are pointing to bacteria infection, internal parasites.
Need to also look at what test kits you are using.
I have used many test kits in the past so sorry i couldnt name them. I know I have used several from the 'tetra' range. The one I am currently using is called 'Nutrafin Test - Mini Master'

First thing to look at is bad water quality, so need the test kit you have used.
As your tanks overstocked.
I am going to a test in a bit so i will let you know soon.

Are the fish going thin due to not eating. Or going thin then stop eating.
They stop eating then go thin as far as I can see.

Check the anus of the fish to see if it's enlarged or red and inflamed.
No, Not that I can see.

Any worms prutruding from the anus.
Again no not that I have noticed.

Any fish have sunken in bellys.
Well they go really thin so I would say sunken yes.

Lost any fish to bent spines.
Wow. I hadn't thought about that. Now you mention it yes 3 or 4 of them have. In fact, I bought a guppy that had a bent over shape and I assumed it was just a breeding fault. That was the first one to die come to think of it, and he was the one that rocked from side to side the most. However he wasnt ever thin until about a month ago then he died. And yeah, as I said there have been a couple of other times when the fish has gone really thin the bent over.
Although when they die, when they go onto there side on the floor of the tank and they they skuttle around in a sort of 'v' shape on there side, so you could say all of them have had a bent spine.

Do any fish swim on there sides.
Yes as i mentioned above when they are about to die. Like i described in my original post.
[Quote from my topic] Then after about 2 or 3 days they sink to the bottom of the tank and only hang about there, still for maybe about 30mins. Then they go onto there sides and they then struggle around, trying to get back upright by swimming in spirals around the tank. Eventually after another 30mins or so they almost 'give in' and they then end up on there side in a sharp 'v' shape shuffling around the floor of the tank.


The crack on the corys head could it of been an injury, due to something sharp in the tank.
I would have agreed with you if it wasnt for the fact that it was on both sides of his/her head in the same place. Plus I always make sure that there are no sharp objects in my tank so it doesnt make sense really.

Also do any of the fish show any of these signs.
Flicking and rubbing, darting, excess mucas, red inflamed gills, or pale gills with excess mucas, swimming in a jerky movement.
Ah. Now i will have to split this into sections.
Flicking and rubbing
A very long time ago when I had only had the fish tank set up about 2 months, aload of my female guppies would skim of the gravel and rocks alot. However they have never had any spots or sores or little worms or anything on them so I didnt think anything of it. The only remaining guppy I have used to do it then but doesnt do it now. Nor does the catfish I have left.
Darting, swimming in darting movements
When I had only had my tank running for about 3-4weeks all my females started to go really frisky and they would constantly be darting uncontrollably around the tank, sometimes banging into rocks or logs. I asked a professional about this and he asked me how many male to females I had. I thought I had 4 female platys and 1 male (at the time) but after further enquiries I found out that instead of soing what I asked and give my 1 male and 4 females the fish store had given me 2 female and 3 males. So I went out and bought some more females and I never had anything like that happen since.
Mucas
Nope nothing like that.
Red inflamed gills
I wouldnt say inflamed, but when the fish have been gasping for air near the end before they die there gills always seem to appear red or dark pink underneath yes.

What does it look like when your fish go to the toilet.
They dont go much at all really but when they do I only see the guppys poop. Her poo is usually white or clear in colour. That was only very recently though and although she is being lethargic she isnt atall thin.

Seen any black colouration, or black spots on the fish
Not black spots or black colouration, not really. The only thing I would say is that the remaining female guppy I have at the moment had a gravid spot in about late November last year, and she then started getting bigger so I assumed she was pregnant. The worrying thing is that she is still 'pregnant' now and she is very 'pregnant' but not to the point of dropsy or anything like that. She looks normal pregnant but she has been pregnant for nearly 3 months now and hasnt once dropped ANY fry. I am very worried about that.
this is what she has looked like since mid december 2009 - http/www.tisfish.com/Guppy/Solid/RedBlondeFemale.jpg
Sorry again about the long post, I know you wanted answers so I have given you them in maybe too much detail.
Thanks anyway.
Xx

 

[mrscullen5373]

oh somethings I forgot to tell you about some cases that scared me.
I had 3 female guppies (the only guppy I have left is one of these females).
The way the other two looked before they died was really quite disturbing.
They did look like this originally (minus the pregnant):
http/www.tisfish.com/Guppy/Solid/RedBlondeFemale.jpg
What happened was (might not have been in this order) the top of the guppy went a kid of orange colour and then all over her body some of the scales seemed to 'pop up' if you like, which made her look almost fuzzy.
Then the place where - in the above picture - the fry would be, instead of looking like a mini egg like it does in that picture half of that area got taken up instead with what I could only describe as . . . a bubble looking thing. Then the guppy got really really thin then died in the way I keep describing.
The exact same thing happened with both those female guppies but not woth any other of my guppies or any of my other fish.
I think the only reason I could see what they looked like inside was because of there colour, I havent been able to see like that at all in any of my other fish. Oh and it hasnt happen yet to my other remaining guppy.
Thought that ing=formation might be useful.

 

[mrscullen5373]

Ok update with my two remaining fish. I just fed them and they are looking ok. The real surprise was that they both ate the food and are now moving about abit as if they are looking for more. Not sure what thast means hopefully it means these two are fighters! Oh and neither are looking that thin really which is also a good sign . . . i think . . . i hope.
xx

 

[mrscullen5373]

OH MY GOD!!
ok I have just spotted something really worrying in my tank.
I have poor eyesight so I just put my glasses on, for the first time ever when looking at my fish tank, just to see if I could spot any marks on the guppy. I switched the fish tank light on and just scanned the substrate quickly and I have spotted loads of little things on and inbetween the gravel on the top layer it seems.
They are extremly tiny though and i have to really focus to see anything at all. All of 'them' - whatever the hell they are!! - seem to be still and lifeless. They look dead.
Its hard to explain cause I have never seen anything like it.
Erm . . . hold on I will try to find a picture if something to compare them too.
xx

 

[mrscullen5373]

Alright this is gonna look/sound really strange but this is the only thing I can think of that looks like it/them.
http/www.skcneedle.com/products_img/200866111523.jpg
I know its a knitting needle but as i said it the only thing that looks anything like the things at the bottom of my thank.
They are miniscule really. The biggest I can see is 3mm long at most. They are white, and most of them are just lying there straight but there are probably about 8 or 10 that are curved in shape. But they are mainly straight with a kind of bump at the end like a 'head'.
There are probably about 30 odd of them as far as I can see but they are add 'dead' i think they arent moving.
WHAT THE HELL IS IT!!!
geez I am getting really worried now.

 

[WILDER]

You are dealing with either fish tb, or internal parasites.

Bent spine can mean old age, birth defect, vitamin deficiency, fish tb, internal parasites, injury.

Long stringy white poo and clear mucas poo. Bacterial infection, internal parasites.

I would get this med and treat the whole tank.
Once the med course is up, you need to back up with a bacterial med.


Get you a link to the med.

I stopped keeping guppys as never had any luck with them.
Bought guppys with internal parasites. (Camallanous worms)
Internal parasites do alot of damage to the organs, resulting in bacterial infections on top.
Once a fish is infested with them the damage has been done.
But you still have to med the tank to save the rest.

Here a link to the med.

http/www.thegreenmachineaquatics.com/mall/productpage.cfm/Aquatics/_nematol%20001/198936

 

[WILDER]

Sorry forgot about the things on the substrate.
Can you get anybody to take a closer look at them for you. My eye sight not very good now I'm getting older.
Net some out of the tank for closer inspection.

 

[WILDER]

I find a magifying glass can help.
Is there a possibility they could be dead fry that haven't quite formed.