Best Chance At Freshwater Community

[FlyingSheep]

For those that read my previous thread about angels, yes I'm still ranting. I wish I could just punch every fish species in the face until they could stop stuffing their faces with each other.

Right now I've got a 75 gallon freshwater tank that I'm planning on building the best community possible. I've got 2 cherry barbs (controlling the hair algae that magically came out nowhere), six black/white angelfish, four guppies, four corys, and a pleco.

The ENTIRE purpose of this aquarium is for a planted tank, so once I figure out how to get a CO2 system up and running I plan to mass buy the plants I've got on my list and get the little guys going. I want to also breed fish, I was really attracted to angelfish as they just had so much going for them. Long lifespan (guppies are my first), large bodies, "marriage," and they are generally really interesting to look at. So I've got six and after having them for about 2 weeks, I'm ready to send them off. I'll miss the little guys, but they're not going to work for me (it's completely my fault, my 30 minutes of research caused this).

So with that out of the way, Red Cherry Shrimp and plants are going to be a must. I want to know if there are any problems that you'll see in my tank set-up so that I avoid getting attached to any more fish that I have to ditch. I plan on maybe raising ottos, plecos, corys, and who knows what else.

Question 1: How are ottos? I know they're friendly but as your typical carpet cleaner, do they always stay at the bottom, or perhaps swim around?
Question 2: Is there a school of fish that can not devour plants and not eat RCS? I've been googling for months and asking people, but so far that's just a dream. Unless I wanted tetras, as they're too small to eat anything alive.
Question 3: I have to get rid of my current pleco eventually as he'll get large and plow through all my plants. If I keep bristlenose, do they have a hidden trait or passive ability to cause plants to frown?
Question 4: With plecos, corys, and maybe ottos (or any combination of the three, I'm not sure really) is there anything that would cause harm to each other/plants?
Question 5: And then there is water temperature, so farm my heater is broken and sitting at 76 (broken as in that's all I'll ever get).

I know I'm being lazy for asking online, but I've got an excel document with all the specifics to mass all the information I can to ensure everything is perfect. But I still like outside opinions. So I would appreciate anything to help me get this straight. I'll have an ecosystem, I shall have it...

*Note, I was also thinking about setting up an amano shrimp bredding set-up too, I've got the extra tanks and those guys are just super cool and worth the effort.

 

[FlyingSheep]

Hmmm, maybe the wall of text was too big of a wall. Q_Q

 

[JordanOsborne]

1. I kept a small school of ottos in my planted aquarium. They are kind of boring to watch because they spend most of their time sucking algae, but they are very pretty to look at.
2. My planted aquarium has hundreds upon hundreds of red cherry shrimp. Our neon tetras, mollies, guppies, and platties all leave them alone.
3. I've never kept a large catfish so I can't comment.
4. I have a small school of corydoras and they are wonderful, peaceful, and energetic fish. They have never harmed my plants.
5. Buy a heater. If you have the money to invest in a planted aquarium hobby you have money to invest in a heater.

Good luck! My best advice for you is to start with easy fish and easy plants. Planted aquariums are much easier than some people on the internet make it out to be. This is a hobby for most of us and its not meant to be stressful! Keep it simple and you will have fun!

 

[KrystaK]

Wow, that's quite a bit to read

1) Otto's are fine, The group I had all tended top be very shy. I would only see them in the morning, swimming at all levels of the tank in search of food. As soon as I turned the light on they would hide and I wouldn't see them for the entire day.
3) I have a BNP and though she does like to sit on leaves and suck the algae off she doesn't cause any problems with the plants, I've seen her on my Java fern and my Amazon Swords
4) I've only kept my Pleco and my Cory's together for any amount of time and they ignore each other. My Pleco is larger than my cory's and does have dominance but rarely bothers to bully my corys (So long as there is enough food there's no problem) As far as Otto's with a BNP, they have the same diet, and if there isnt enough food there could be some issues there, but generally both species are very peaceful and if they all have enough food they'll probably ignore each other. None of the bottom feeders you've mentioned will harm your plants.
5) 76 is a fine temperature, a little on the low side, but with that being said Cory's prefer cooler water to breed in so you may end up with Cory eggs

One think I will say is that is enough hiding space is not provided for a BNP they may burrow, which may cause root damage. I have driftwood in my tank and my BNP has a few different places dug out to hide in. My plants are all fine, but that may be something to watch out for.

 

[Ruskull]

Great advice so far. In my 36 gallon I have (4) Otos together with a large Bristlenose Pleco female and there hasn't been any problems. I also have a medium sized Bristlenose Pleco female with (7) Threelined Corys in a 20 gallon tank. The BN Pleco does bully the Corys a bit, especially for food, but no damage and it's not like she chases them non stop. Only when they're eating her food or invading her personal space. All are fine in planted tankss but larger male BN Plecos can mess up delicate plants since they kind of bump around like a bull in a china shop.

 

[ScholasticSpastic]

(Some passages snipped for brevity)

I've got a 75 gallon freshwater tank & I've got 2 cherry barbs (controlling the hair algae that magically came out nowhere), six black/white angelfish, four guppies, four corys, and a pleco.

Increase your number of cherry barbs. They're a shoaling fish and will do best in groups of six or more. I'd also highly recommend getting a few more corys. You will not understand how much better these fish are in school until you've experienced it for yourself.

So with that out of the way, Red Cherry Shrimp and plants are going to be a must. I want to know if there are any problems that you'll see in my tank set-up so that I avoid getting attached to any more fish that I have to ditch. I plan on maybe raising ottos, plecos, corys, and who knows what else.

Question 1: How are ottos? I know they're friendly but as your typical carpet cleaner, do they always stay at the bottom, or perhaps swim around?

Ottos will clean surfaces of algae wherever their weight is supported. I would not expect them to spend much time on the bottom of a well-planted tank, though. Be sure to keep a school of them and don't be discouraged if you see a high initial mortality rate. Many ottos are wild-caught and may come in with internal parasites. Those which survive the first couple of weeks should do well for you.

Question 2: Is there a school of fish that can not devour plants and not eat RCS? I've been googling for months and asking people, but so far that's just a dream. Unless I wanted tetras, as they're too small to eat anything alive.

Most small, schooling fish should leave your ADULT shrimp alone. Any fish but ottos will definitely eat any shrimplets they can catch. So if you're planning on breeding RCS, either start with a large enough colony that losses from predation will not be larger than births, or keep the shrimp in a tank without fish. Never trust any sort of cichlid with any size shrimp.

Question 3: I have to get rid of my current pleco eventually as he'll get large and plow through all my plants. If I keep bristlenose, do they have a hidden trait or passive ability to cause plants to frown?

A bristlenose pleco should be fine in a planted tank. Definitely be rid of the common one.

Question 4: With plecos, corys, and maybe ottos (or any combination of the three, I'm not sure really) is there anything that would cause harm to each other/plants?

Keep no more than one pleco, unless it's half of a pair. Plecos can be very territorial fish. Your pleco should coexist with ottos, however, as they're too small to register as competition. Neither seem bothered by or to bother corys.

Question 5: And then there is water temperature, so farm my heater is broken and sitting at 76 (broken as in that's all I'll ever get).

I'm happiest at 78, but 76 should be fine for all the organisms specified thus far.

*Note, I was also thinking about setting up an amano shrimp bredding set-up too, I've got the extra tanks and those guys are just super cool and worth the effort.

You should share details if you get this to work. I'm interested in hearing how that goes.

 

[snazy]

Question 1: How are ottos? I know they're friendly but as your typical carpet cleaner, do they always stay at the bottom, or perhaps swim around?

They are not bottom fish and are pure vegetarians, so shrimp and shrimplets are perfectly safe. Planted tank will suit them to ghe ground, but it needs to be established as they won't accept anything bar algae in the beginning. If you get a nice school of them, they won't be so boring and will swim together. They hang around the plants and suck on the glass and you don't need a pleco if you get them. For a heavily planted tank pleco isn't ideal.

Question 2: Is there a school of fish that can not devour plants and not eat RCS? I've been googling for months and asking people, but so far that's just a dream. Unless I wanted tetras, as they're too small to eat anything alive.

As above, all fish will eat shrimplets but adult shrimp are safe with many species and if you tank is well planted, with hiding spots then most of the shrimp should survive to adulthood unless you have some big predators. Ottos are the only ones that won't touch either adult or baby shrimp. Also smaller type corydoras like habrosus, hastatus, pygmeaus won't eat adult shrimp and will be safer with shrimplets. They will love to be in a big shoaling group. I've got pygmy corys and they are mosty middle level swimmers unlike the bigger corys so they would be a nice addition to the current stock. The bigger type corys won't eat the adult shrimp but may try snacking on smaller ones if one passes by their mouths but I wouldn't worry too much if you are having a nice amount of plants in there. And for some colour and also kind of the "safest" species with shrimp because of their size, I would get a big school of boraras brigittae

Question 3: I have to get rid of my current pleco eventually as he'll get large and plow through all my plants. If I keep bristlenose, do they have a hidden trait or passive ability to cause plants to frown?

Not sure about bristelose ones, mine is just a baby. I've got a common pleco myself in another tank. He doesn't touch plants to eat them or to uproot them but he likes "relaxing" over them and although he is very gentle doing it, I would find occassionally a broken leaf. But generally, he spends his time on the driftwood or on the tank glass and is quite gentle otherwise with plants considering his size(7inch currently) but 55G is too small for one of them. If you are getting ottos, then skip the pleco so both species don't compete for the same food. Ottos will definately not damage the plants and without a pleco there you can afford a bigger school of ottos.

Question 4: With plecos, corys, and maybe ottos (or any combination of the three, I'm not sure really) is there anything that would cause harm to each other/plants?

Not really, I've got all three species in the same tank with the pleco about 7-8 inch currently. The pleco didn't come near even a tiny baby cory I put in there once.

 

[Baccus]

All excellent advice on otocinclus they are a wonderful little fish, but the down sides of them is that they often wont learn to eat non-naturally growing algea and often when they arrive in shops they are half starved and in a bad way. Almost all otocinclus are wild caught simply because the young are so hard to raise let alone getting the adults in the mood to spawn. People have bred and raised otocinclus in their home aquariums but it is really tough, with a lot of hurdles and dead ends before sucess.
With Amazon swords, crypts, anubis and other thicker leafed plants a bristlenose will be fine, potential munching damage wise, but plants with soft leafs and stems bristlenoses will usually demolish. Plus a full grown bristle nose has a huge paddle of a tail so with one innocent mighty sweep of their tail they can clear substrate away from plant roots. Plus when an adult bristle nose gets a scare they really do barrel around the tank like "a bull in a china shop".
Almost all corys are great in any tank provided you give them a sand substrate so they can really show off their foraging abilities. Just remember corys will like snuffling around plants and may up root new plantings. The ccorys mean no harm but it does get frustrating. Plus not all corys need high temps, in fact quite a few of the more commonly kept ones like temps around the 22 degree cel mark. A school of any of the dwarf corys would look great in a planted tank and should cause the least substrate disturbance which will be a huge bonus if using fertilizer tabs around the plants roots.
Cherry shrimp are the hardiest of shrimp, but be warned they breed and breed and breed. Amano shrimp have to be wild caught and there are fears that the constant trapping and removal of them from the wild will badly impact their native environments. If however you are willing and able to set up brackish and greenwater tanks for the sole purpose of breeding and raising Amano shrimp go for it, it can be done but like otocinclus its a hard slog.
If you are willing to have a more subtropical tank over a traditional tropical tank than a great tank cleaning fish is Borneo Suckers mainly Gastromyzon species. Truly a great and under rated fish .

Khuli loaches would also adore a fully planted tank and be little or no danger to shrimp and khuli loaches also wont harm the plants although they will like resting in, around and on them .

Another option that is not an algea cleaner but maybe invaluable for future snail control (since you can't use snail killer with shrimp) is a nice school of dwarf chain loaches they are active little guys shoaling together and racing about the tank and pretty to with their black and gold markings. So far I have not had any problems with dwarf chain loaches or khuli loaches eating my shrimp or causing damage to plants.

And a final note of caution when using Co2 with shrimp it can really muck up the pH and kill the shrimp, also be aware that some fertilizers are not advisable to use with shrimp, tab type fertlizers might be a safer option over liquid ferts with shrimp.

 

[phishyphil]

Question 1: How are ottos? I know they're friendly but as your typical carpet cleaner, do they always stay at the bottom, or perhaps swim around?

Otto's are fantastic! Don't get me wrong, there hardly active swimmers, but they serve a great purpose in the planted tank, and have great character (mine regularly hitch a ride on my Golden apple Snail, cleaning as they go). Most important though is, like previously stated, the tank needs to be established and plenty of algae available on rocks, wood etc. Too many people buy these tanks out the gate, only for them to starve to death

Question 2: Is there a school of fish that can not devour plants and not eat RCS? I've been googling for months and asking people, but so far that's just a dream. Unless I wanted tetras, as they're too small to eat anything alive.

Most fish are oppertunistic and will go for anything alive which is in distress or on its way out. Cherry shrimps will breed like crazy if you have 10+. Some young WILL be eaten, its inevitable, but some will survive, so your population will increase.
In terms of plants, some species will eat them, some wont, depending on the plant, and on the fish. Livebearers tend to love plants such as cabomba and will eat it regularly. Plants such as anubias and Java ferns are usually avoided.
If your fish are fed accordingly, they should not go to your plants, Hopefully My Pleco's never touches my plants, nor do they uproot them, there prett gracefull when they want to be

Question 3: I have to get rid of my current pleco eventually as he'll get large and plow through all my plants. If I keep bristlenose, do they have a hidden trait or passive ability to cause plants to frown?

Bristlenoses in my experience are a beautiful fish, just very elusive. I have one in the 120 and I never see him, only when im doing maintenance on the tank, if you want a catfish or something along them lines which you are going to see and are actve, stick with cories.
Sterbai cories are beautifull!


Question 4: With plecos, corys, and maybe ottos (or any combination of the three, I'm not sure really) is there anything that would cause harm to each other/plants?

In terms of harm to each other, no they should be pretty peacefull (cories and ottos anyway). Sometimes you will get a Pleco with an attitude who will defend his "territory". But usually there a happy bunch.
Ensure you have a sand substrate or fine gravel (not to sharp) this is to avoid damage to the barbels of the cories and the under bellys of the Plecs. Whilst there solid and armoured on there backs, there soft underneath!

Question 5: And then there is water temperature, so farm my heater is broken and sitting at 76 (broken as in that's all I'll ever get)

Temperatures range from 22-28 degrees. Dependant on your fish's desired level (or natural habitat). This will come with research, if you get a a group of fish with similar ranges, just find the average of there desired temp. Temps will vary through out the day anyway, due to the heat from your lights, temp is not a major issue in my experience, its Water quality and parameters (gh, kh, ph, NH3, NO2, NO3) which is the main thing to monitor.