White Sand In Planted Aquarium?

[PrincessKiara]

Hello all! I'm back at long, long last! And FINALLY I met a fellow aquarist in person, who will help me build my own tank! I want at least a 60g.

But I'm gonna start propagating my plants now if possible, in a jar in the yard... cause now I live in Cancun and there is lots of sun for them. I want Cryptocorynes, corkscrew Val and sword plants mainly, with a little bit of grass-like ground coating plant to round things out (can you guys recommend any easy ones?)
 
Anyway, I just wanted to ask about the sand. I want to use white sand like I did in my other aquariums, cause I just love the look of it and don't like gravel. But the people here, including the LFS owner (and he really seems to know his stuff) and my aquarist friend, keep saying that sand is just crushed marble and will mess with my water hardness (worse here because Cancun water is reeeeeally hard already). They keep recommending gravel, which is not only more than three times as expensive but also not as pretty (to my eyes). Is that true? Can I just gather up some beach sand from a clean spot, boil it and use that? And if the sand really does mess with hardness, then can I use fast growing plants (I've heard Vals are great for that) to "soak up" the excess minerals? 'Cause this time I really, really, REALLY want a discus or two. I know exactly how I want my tank to look, and I'm gonna go all-out this time, now I've got someone to really talk to about these things. (His cherry shrimp just bred, and he told me he'll give me a couple babies when they grow a bit! They are ADORABLE!!!!)
 
Thanks a bunch guys and girls! Man, I've missed you all. It's good to be back!

 
P.S. My veterinarian uncle assured me it's safe to use beach sand and shells to decorate my tank because it's "less polluted" here in Cancun. Is that true?
 
P.P.S. Are you still around, Teacher? Missed you :3

 
P.P.P.S. Could I safely build a 60-gallon glass tank myself (with adult assistance, of course)?
 
P.P.P.P.S. OK, I'll shut up now. xD

 

[Akasha72]

my sand has sent my pH and hardness the other way. Tap pH is 7.4 kH 2, tank is pH 6 kH 0-1. I have no idea if you can collect beach sand and use that (although common sense says 'why not') but I just thought I'd chip in and tell you what my sand does. My sand is Unipac aquarium sand aswell. 
 
It would seem that sand can alter the pH but it's anybodies guess whether the one you wanna use will. You could try getting a small bag, adding a bit to a clean glass, adding dechlorinated water and leaving it to stand for a week or more and keep testing the water to see what it's doing before adding loads to a tank and finding it's causing problems. That's how I discovered my sand was the culprit for the pH drop anyway 

 

[Byron]

Sand and gravel can alter the GH (hardness) and pH of water, depending upon the rock from which either is made.  If the rock is calcareous, such as limestone, marble, lava, dolomite, aragonite, or crushed coral, the mineral in the sand/gravel will raise the GH and pH.  In some cases (with hard water fish) this is not an issue, but if yu intend soft water fish this can be disastrous, depending upon the levels and the fish species.  So it is not necessarily sand or gravel that matters, but what mineral/substance the sand or gravel is derived.
 
No amount of plants can use a fraction of the minerals from harder water.  I have maintained heavily planted tanks for over 20 years, with soft water and hard water.  The initial GH and KH of the source water is unlikely to vary much at all in an aquarium, unless it is being specifically targeted and even here it depends upon the initial GH and KH.  I won't get into the chemistry now.
 
Second point, do not use sand from the beach.  This will likely contain salt and this is not good for most freshwater fish.  There4 is also always the possibility of other contaminants in any sand collected from nature.
 
Third, I would not use white in any case.  This is the most un-natural substrate for the fish in most cases, and it can cause problems.  A darker substrate is best; play sand works very well if you want sand, and as I now have this in six of seven tanks, I certainly recommend it.  Remember that the aquarium is for the fish, not the aquarist, and providing the best environment for the selected fish species will mean healthier fish.
 
Byron.

 

[Akasha72]

I never thought of the salt in beach sand ... and now you've said it Byron it's so obvious. Feeling a bit dumb now 

 

[PrincessKiara]

my sand has sent my pH and hardness the other way. Tap pH is 7.4 kH 2, tank is pH 6 kH 0-1. I have no idea if you can collect beach sand and use that (although common sense says 'why not') but I just thought I'd chip in and tell you what my sand does. My sand is Unipac aquarium sand aswell. 
 
It would seem that sand can alter the pH but it's anybodies guess whether the one you wanna use will. You could try getting a small bag, adding a bit to a clean glass, adding dechlorinated water and leaving it to stand for a week or more and keep testing the water to see what it's doing before adding loads to a tank and finding it's causing problems. That's how I discovered my sand was the culprit for the pH drop anyway 

That's JUST what I need my sand to do! But I'm in Cancun so things are not readily available here. What kinds of light colored sand lower pH and hardness? Please tell me xD My water is like SUPER hard, leaving mineral deposits everywhere, and I wanna keep discus! Using other water than tap is out of the question for me.

 

[PrincessKiara]

Also, is silica sand inert? I've heard it is. It's the kind I had, and many people are saying it's totally chemically inert...
 
EDIT: Yeah, I know. Paging the DoRD...

 

[Byron]

There is no sand I know of or have ever seen that lowers GH and pH.  Inert sand, such as play sand, does not affect parameters, and calcareous sands raise the GH and pH.  Sand is pulverized rock, and there is no rock that acts this way.  Of course, other organic-origin substances can be added to sand, and this mioght affect this, depending.
 
I don't want to second guess Akasha, but there was likely more to it than just the sand.  Normally, the biological processes in an aquarium with fish will tend to soften the water and lower the pH as the organics build and decompose, producing CO2.  This rate however is "buffered" by the GH and KH of the water; the higher the GH/KH, the less the parameters will change.  In Akasha's example, the very low KH meant that the organics would more readily lower the pH as the CO2 added carbonic acid to the water.
 
GH has the greater impact on fish when we are considering hard vs soft water species.  The GH is the level of dissolved mineral salts in the water, and as fish respirate these salts pass from water as it moves through the gills and enter the bloodstream.  Fish evolved in hard water use these minerals physiologically, but soft water fish have to get rid of them via urination.  But the calcium in particular can block the kidneys in time.  Any extremes either way will make the fish work much harder just to function normally, if it can.
 
The pH is imortant but somewhat less so.  Provided the pH is not extreme, and remains relatively stable, the fish will usually manage.
 
The only way to safely and effectively lower the GH/KH and pH is by diluting the hard water with "pure" water such as reverse osmosis, distilled or rainwater (if this is otherwise safe).  However, water changes have to be done with similarly-diluted water or the GH will just build back up over time because the plants and fish cannot use all the minerals from the harder water.
 
You mention discus...if you are thinking of acquiring these locally, find out the source.  If they are raised by a breeder, contact them and discuss their water.  Also, ascertain the numbers for the GH, KH and pH of your source water (tap).  Without knowing these as a starting point, you would just be guessing.
 
Byron.

 

[Akasha72]

Hi Byron, I will go through my photographs at some stage and post up the experiment that I did with my sand. It shocked everyone on the forum I was on at the time with what happened. I basicly proved beyond a shadow of doubt that the sand drops my pH dramaticly 

 

[Alasse]

The salt can be washed from beach sand no probs there. Beach sand does however have crushed shells etc in it and generally will raise the water hardness in your tank, this makes it unsuitable for people who require softer water.
 
It is also illegal to take in many places

 

[Byron]

Hi Byron, I will go through my photographs at some stage and post up the experiment that I did with my sand. It shocked everyone on the forum I was on at the time with what happened. I basicly proved beyond a shadow of doubt that the sand drops my pH dramaticly 

 
I believe I contributed to that thread, now I think of it, but I really can't remember the details.  Link it if you find it please, I'll review.  B.

 

[Akasha72]

I'm struggling to find the photo's that support the experiment Byron but when I do I'll post it up for you to look over