demonmagus
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Hi, I've always wondered where the 'friendly filter bacteria' come from, can anyone explain at all?
thanks
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I'm under the impression that it comes from the air. I'v heard some say it's in the water and that makes sense if you have well water but if you have city water then the chlorine levels should kill off any bacteria. I bet it's in the air.
I posed this question over a year ago in this thread. General consensus was through the air. I think the first bacteria either enters via the air or on our hands/arms as we place things in the tank. I strongly believe that is why some people can do a fishless cycle in 2 to 3 weeks and others it tanks 2 months. Until that first ammonia processing bacteria finds its way into the tank, the ammonia won't begin to drop. And once ammonia is finally being processed, the nitrite processing bacteria also has to enter the tank. I tried a fishless cycling experiment a year or more ago and after 16 days, My ammonia had still not dropped at all. Apparently, no bacteria had ever entered the tank to start the process. I finally broke the tank down and gave up.
you could say its our planet. its everything around us that gives life to bacteria, and us fortunately, (or unfortunately).
i'm not saying there's not bacteria out in space. scientists think there is bacteria living in the comets whirling through space as its got lots of life giving stuff in it.
I'm not quite certain what you mean. You don't do water changes at all during a fishless cycle unless things are going wrong and you want to try to kick start it again. But if no beneficial bacteria ever gets into the tank from where ever it comes from, the tank will never cycle. I agree that there is more to a cycle than just getting the bacteria in the water. You obviously have to provide a food supply (ammonia) and have proper heat and aeration. The filter probably makes some difference but who knows how much. After all the bacteria can only multiply so fast and more water passing through it (10 times/hr vs. 5 times/hr) should only have a minimal effect on the cycling process.well i would feel this was down to the way you tried to do the cycle, more than lack of bacteria. it is more often a balance, between the water changes, the amount of ammonia and the type of filtration used. this is not to say i feel you did things wrong!! simply there is more to a cycle, than just having the benificial bacteria in you water. this is witnessed by members who have cycled a tank. and then express concern that a new cycle is taking longer, or even less time.
I'm not quite certain what you mean. You don't do water changes at all during a fishless cycle unless things are going wrong and you want to try to kick start it again. But if no beneficial bacteria ever gets into the tank from where ever it comes from, the tank will never cycle. I agree that there is more to a cycle than just getting the bacteria in the water. You obviously have to provide a food supply (ammonia) and have proper heat and aeration. The filter probably makes some difference but who knows how much. After all the bacteria can only multiply so fast and more water passing through it (10 times/hr vs. 5 times/hr) should only have a minimal effect on the cycling process.well i would feel this was down to the way you tried to do the cycle, more than lack of bacteria. it is more often a balance, between the water changes, the amount of ammonia and the type of filtration used. this is not to say i feel you did things wrong!! simply there is more to a cycle, than just having the benificial bacteria in you water. this is witnessed by members who have cycled a tank. and then express concern that a new cycle is taking longer, or even less time.
I think the place so many people get stalled is on the nitrite. It seems to take forever and that is 2-fold. First, from everything I've ready, the bacteria that process nitrite simply multiply slower than those for ammonia. Second, there is more nitrite to process. When you start, you add ammonia and wait for it to drop. You add more and wait. Once the ammonia is processing in 10 to 12 hours, you're adding it at least once and probably twice a day which means you are also adding nitrite every time as the ammonia becomes nitrite. It would be interesting to have a test kit that could truly measure how high the nitrite gets at the top of the spike.
The bottom line is if no bacteria ever gets into a tank (like in a “clean room†as someone mentioned both in this thread and in the old one) the tank will never cycle regardless of how many water changes you do, how much ammonia you add or what type filtration you have.
I agree.but isnt that the point. you cant avoid getting the bacteria in there its on us in the water and in the air. unless you have a clean room tank setup you cant avoid getting it in there, if you cant manage a cycle, it is most unlikley to be because of lack of bacteria. there will most likley be another reason.
My point is that the cycle won't start until the first bacteria enters the tank. In the situation I had, it went 16 days with absolutely no change in the ammonia. That was simply a case of no bacteria ever being present in the tank to start processing the ammonia. If there had been, it would have started dropping. The fact is, we don't know where it really is or comes from. Everyone's conjecture is that it's airborne. After all, we always say there's no use to try to start a cycle on a new tank with the water from an old tank because there aren't any bacteria in the water column. If that's the case, then it has to come from the air or off us. So if it's on us and we never stick our hands in the water like in the situation with my tank (placed airstones and filter in tank, added water and ammonia and never had my hands in the water), once again, no bacteria in the water.but isnt that the point. you cant avoid getting the bacteria in there its on us in the water and in the air.
Is it possible that there was an extremely low concentration and the test kits we use weren't sensitive enough to measure it? Yes. Is it possible other, external factors were affecting the ability of the bacteria to reproduce? Yes. there is far more to a bacteria colony than just giving it ammonia and water.That was simply a case of no bacteria ever being present in the tank to start processing the ammonia. If there had been, it would have started dropping.
If you read the posts by Bignose and I, you may find that is not the caseThe fact is, we don't know where it really is or comes from. Everyone's conjecture is that it's airborne.
After all, we always say there's no use to try to start a cycle on a new tank with the water from an old tank because there aren't any bacteria in the water column. If that's the case, then it has to come from the air or off us.
Save from the water from the tap (see posts above).So if it's on us and we never stick our hands in the water like in the situation with my tank (placed airstones and filter in tank, added water and ammonia and never had my hands in the water), once again, no bacteria in the water.
Another interesting thing about this is, we always say that you must have a food supply (ammonia) or the bacteria can’t develop or survive and if for some reason the power goes off, you must keep the filter wet or the bacteria will die. If that is the case, how can the bacteria be in the air? There’s no ammonia in the air that I’m aware of (I guess there’s actually a little of everything in the air) and it’s definitely dry unless the humidity will keep it alive and if that is the case, it could survive on a dry filter. Can bacteria live off the sweat and bodily fluids on us?
So back to the original question, where does it come from? It isn’t present in the water column, and it can’t live in the air or on use because it doesn’t have a food supply and there isn’t enough moisture to keep it wet.