What's My Best Option To Downgrade?

stu40

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Ok so i didn't want to hijack the WPG thread already on here.Found this comment interesting

If you got a new Juwel tank you'ld better know how to use CO2 and get it on there fast because the plonkers at Juwel have read the myths above and put 2 x full length T5HOs in the top. That makes it a lot of light


i posted this in the hardware section awhile ago, but didn't get much response.Knew i should have put it up here.

Ok so basically i want to down grade my lighting.At the moment i'm running 2 x 45W Juwel High Lite T5's over 160L (42 USGAL) in a planted tank.This set up seems to be pushing the need for more CO2 & Ferts


This is a road i don't really want to go down.So the way i see it my options are
(1)Disable one of the 2 lights.But i like the idea of having 2 bulbs.Distribution of light etc
(2)Change 1 or both bulbs for lower wattage.They don't seem to do T5's in my size (895mm/36")in anything apart from 45W
(3) Get some floating plants.How much light will they block out?
(4)Decrease the time period.Started with 8 hours, now down to 5.
(5) other options i haven't considered
(6) Buy reflectors and install inverted.(just found this after searching)


Who's the bigger plonker, Juwel or me for buying it?

Any thoughts please (preferably about the dilemma, not me being a plonker)

Stu
 
Placing lower wattage tubes in the current fitting will just burn them out quicker, the ballast is still putting out 45W x 2.

The easiest way would be to add floating plants I think, or use a different lighting unit.
 
Yes, see here:

IMG_1200.jpg


The shade on the right is due to Salvinia natans, a broader leaved floating plant.
 
I'd just take out one bulb and see if it still works on one, the light distribution won't be much different if they're full length T5's.
 
Im pretty sure they do not work with one bulb. I have t8s on my juwel now, but i use to have the 2 t5s in my 180, tbh id ebay your whole lighting system if I was you. You will get a good price for it as someone always wants a juwel lighting system, theres even a post in the wanted section, then just buy the T8 version brand new...

Yes, see here:

IMG_1200.jpg


The shade on the right is due to Salvinia natans, a broader leaved floating plant.

SBS, do they not flow around, I have a pretty strong current near my surface and id be worried if i got them they would flow everywhere?
 
Yes, they just sort of ended up on one side, but if the surface is full of them they have no where to go.
 
(1)Disable one of the 2 lights.But i like the idea of having 2 bulbs.Distribution of light etc

Agreed 2 lights means you are able to uee a combination of colours to give a better appearance to the tank.


(2)Change 1 or both bulbs for lower wattage.They don't seem to do T5's in my size (895mm/36")in anything apart from 45W

He, he. Whilst following the myth they also decided to use their own specific measurement so you would have to buy premium tubes :) There are T5s out here to fit but not sure where.

(3) Get some floating plants.How much light will they block out?
This is both the cheapest(*) option and most commonly suggested/used method

(*) = I am not one who would suggest it. Yes if you want floating plants in your tank for a reason then go for it however consider that whilst floating plants are cheap. wasted energy isn't, nor environmentally friendly. You will be paying for electricity that you aren't needing and that cost will catch up with the saving by not 'downgrading'.

(4)Decrease the time period.Started with 8 hours, now down to 5.
Will help a little but you are still pushing high light for that shorter period!!!

(5) other options i haven't considered
Buy a T5NO (normal output) or T8 controller with leads and then you are lower :) If you are handy with DIY, want to gain efficiency plus lamp life you have 2 options:

You can either recycle the lamp holders in the tank but DIY them to a slightly different distance apart (i.e. screw 1 end cap or both a cm or so further out) and buy standard tubes, then buy a suitable electronic ballast from ebay, remove the old one from the I bar, replace with the new and voila. T5NO instead of T5HO.

Or you could repeat the above but with suitable T8 ballast and buy some lamp leads to fit T8 :)

If not confident with DIY then buying the external controller (basically a ballast with leads attached that fits somewhere outside the tank). If confident then take a look at the sticky thread in Hardware and DIY at the top of the subforum on 'replacing Juwel I bar ballasts)

(6) Buy reflectors and install inverted.(just found this after searching)[/size][/color]
I've never heard anything so silly. This is suggesting that you redirect all the light towards the hood???? Who thought that one up? Firstly you are pushing a load of heat at the top of the canopy and it WILL warp over time. Secondly you are wasting a whole heap of energy (and money)

The trade off if you are staying with the same lights is to waste some energy by not using the reflectors at all therefore not redirecting the light that reflectors 'retrieve'. Pointing the reflectors the opposite way is just a ridiculous thing to do. You have 30% of the output into the tank without reflectors. 70% with reflectors. I know lets burn 100W knowing 95W of it is bwing totally wasted. Someone who suggested that needs to stand back and do some serious thinking!!!

Who's the bigger plonker, Juwel or me for buying it?
You are not, Juwel are. Juwel are a manufacturer. they will do things that consumers want however there are 2 ways to look at this:

Just as the community had started to understand we don't need great amounts of light, Juwel wack more light on. The old reasoning (and you saw this where I put the quote you've added in your post) was that under 2WPG and you couldn't grow anything properly. Therefore you could say that Juwel succumbed to consumer desire and added more light to satisfy planted people's needs. They may well not have been up to date with current thinking.

The second way of thinking (and the one I would suggest is more likely) is that they did understand all this but just as many fert companies know N&P doesn't cause algae they follow the old myth because more consumers think the myths are true than know the actual truth. So like the fert companies who know N&P does not cause algae yet leave N&P out of their fert detailing the absence of N&P as a sale point. Juwel have now made their tanks 'plant friendly'. The larger consumer base is still the one that follows what 'word of mouth' or 'experienced' or the man in the shop tells them. The majority of these people regurgitate things year on year and do not update their beliefs. Therefore the companies market their products on outdated myths/theories knowing full well they are untrue but then they are just supplying what the uninitiated want :)

At the end of the day they have to make their products as attractive as they can to sell the most and if that means adding light when it is not needed then it makes perfect business sense if that makes their product more attractive to the majority that believe they need the higher light :)

And no you're not a plonker. My first tank (only 5 years ago) had 1.1WPG. I read the planted forums and found out I needed to upgrade. So I packed nearly 3WPG above and couldn't control the algae even with pressurised. 3 months later I downgraded to 0.9WPG. Never looked back since :)

Might sound strange but it was only 4/5 years ago that EVERYBODY accepted you at least needed higher light to grow certain plants. With lower light limited to a small section of 'low light' plants. We have moved on a massive amount in terms of understanding of light since then however 4-5 years is not a long time and therefore those who have been in the hobby for a long long time pass on their beliefs and it runs along the chain. Will be a long long long time before the majority is not on the myth side. Takes years to alter 'long understood facts'. :)

Its like Grandma believed you got a cold if you were out in the rain, she told mother that, mother told you that etc. Takes generations to work through before those who are left know it ain't the truth :)


Andy
 
I would add some floating plants, i have some of the frogbit that is for sale on the forum, but i didn't get enough. Will hopefully be adding to it the next payday. Has your tank got reflectors? If so remove them, they make a fair bit of difference, or at least they did for me. You could try and create some shade in the tank by adding some pieces of wood such as branches etc. I have added quite a large piece and it has added a fair bit of shade to the substrate beneath it.

Other option is to use it as a positive and go full on into a high tech set up running pressurised Co2 and ferts. :good:
 
I'd just take out one bulb and see if it still works on one, the light distribution won't be much different if they're full length T5's.

Good idea.That was the first thing i tried, however as kkaannee suggested, they don't work with one bulb out.


Im pretty sure they do not work with one bulb. I have t8s on my juwel now, but i use to have the 2 t5s in my 180, tbh id ebay your whole lighting system if I was you. You will get a good price for it as someone always wants a juwel lighting system, theres even a post in the wanted section, then just buy the T8 version brand new...

I have a pretty strong current near my surface and id be worried if i got them they would flow everywhere?

I'm using the Juwel internal, so the concern about them clogging it up was the reason why i haven't (as yet) tried the plants out.

I would add some floating plants, i have some of the frogbit that is for sale on the forum, but i didn't get enough. Will hopefully be adding to it the next payday. Has your tank got reflectors? If so remove them, they make a fair bit of difference, or at least they did for me. You could try and create some shade in the tank by adding some pieces of wood such as branches etc. I have added quite a large piece and it has added a fair bit of shade to the substrate beneath it.

Other option is to use it as a positive and go full on into a high tech set up running pressurised Co2 and ferts. :good:

No reflectors, and i haven't got the time or inclination to go high tec.The other half already thinks i spend too much time thinking about fish related stuff

The easiest way would be to add floating plants I think, or use a different lighting unit.

i think this sums up the approach i'm going to take.The different lighting unit being Cunning Plan A.

Andy:where do i start.Thanks, in a word, for your lengthy reply.DIY is not my strong point, with things quickly going downhill before i end up bodging it back to where it started from.
rolleyes.gif

Don't worry, i had a serious word with myself about posting #6. I had a nagging feeling that it was a daft idea, and yet i still managed to put it out there
sad1.gif

I did notice that the length of the bulbs seem exclusive to Juwel.Funny that.From a financial point though, i'd have thought they would a lower amount of lighting in as standard, forcing people to then upgrade if the want more.
 
I did notice that the length of the bulbs seem exclusive to Juwel.Funny that.From a financial point though, i'd have thought they would a lower amount of lighting in as standard, forcing people to then upgrade if the want more.

Quite the opposite. All tanks are pretty lean on lighting. Juwel spotted a chance (or thought they were doing right) and upgraded the lighting. then marketed it as 'new high light' and loads of people have been buying into it.

from what I see, hear and gather Juwel sales are as good as they ever were, which is pretty good with cheaper options doing better and better against the older traditional makers these days :)

Andy
 
Have a look at these. Don't know if they do your size
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/mobile/content.php?sid=3360
 
I did notice that the length of the bulbs seem exclusive to Juwel.Funny that.From a financial point though, i'd have thought they would a lower amount of lighting in as standard, forcing people to then upgrade if the want more.

Quite the opposite. All tanks are pretty lean on lighting. Juwel spotted a chance (or thought they were doing right) and upgraded the lighting. then marketed it as 'new high light' and loads of people have been buying into it.

from what I see, hear and gather Juwel sales are as good as they ever were, which is pretty good with cheaper options doing better and better against the older traditional makers these days :)

Andy

I do like my Juwel, it fits in well with the look in our living room.Before buying, i did have some doubts that it was too much light but i got a really good deal on it.In hindsight should have got a 2nd hand one, and put whatever lighting i wanted in.Oh well.Just feeling my way back into this hobby, but everything's looking ok ATM with tank, just want to avoid issues down the road.


Have a look at these. Don't know if they do your size
http://www.practical...nt.php?sid=3360

Nice spot,unfortunately my length is still 45w
rolleyes.gif
. Plus it would still leave me with the ballast issue, as per SBS post #2
 

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