WANT TO BUY: Pygmy Chain Swords

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Byron

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Providing your location will help. I assume it is in the continental US from coordinates but no idea how "accurate" they may be if at all. Some countries have restrictions on plants being shipped, I ran into this some years ago when someone in the US wanted plants (I'm in Canada). US Agriculture said "no."
 
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connorlindeman

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Providing your location will help. I assume it is in the continental US from coordinates but no idea how "accurate" they may be if at all. Some countries have restrictions on plants being shipped, I ran into this some years ago when someone in the US wanted plants (I'm in Canada). US Agriculture said "no."
True. I'm in New Jersey.
I actually once sent plants into Canada. They made it through. I wouldn't do it again though.
 

anewbie

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Not what you want but aquariumplants has them and are very reliable; sadly shipping burns esp this time of year but maybe they have some other stuff you want:
https://aquariumplants.com/narrow-leaf-chain-sword-echinodorus-tennelus-10-per-order/

I personally gave up on the stuff - i mean i could never really figure out where it fit in things between dwarf sag (which grows 8 inches in my aquarium) and well dwarf sag. Is it easier to grow - i can't tell - but i fell in love with Echinodorus Parviflorus ... lovely plant to carpet with.
 

Byron

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Echinodorus Parviflorus ... lovely plant to carpet with.

This comment led me to some new data on this species. Echinodorus parviflorus was initially drscribed as a distinct species by Rataj in 1970. In 1980 Rataj reclassified it as E. amazonicus var. parviflorus. Lehtonen (2008) synonymised both E. parviflorus and E. amazonicus with E. grisebachii on the basis of phylogenetic analysis. Unknown to me until now, E. grisebachii is now classified in the genus Aquarius erected by Christenhusz & Byng in 2018, and these botanists also deem "parviflorus" a synonym of A. grisebachii.

One may wonder how two or three plants could be deemed the same species in spite of their varied sizes and shapes.

Haynes & Holm-Nielsen (1994) considered the species E. bleherae, E. amazonicus and E. parviflorus to be conspecific [the same species] with E. grisebachii. Kasselmann (2002) suggested that the different habitus of the submersed plants between these three "species" is reason to retain the present names in the hobby. But Samuli Lehtonen's extensive phylogenetic analysis (2006) basically supports the findings of Haynes & Holm-Nielsen, with a few changes. Differences in appearance between these plants are apparent and seem dependent on the specific environment in the aquarium; this seems likely to also occur in nature, what can be termed transitional forms of the species. But the limited genetic variation within the complex is insufficient to establish reasonable groupings (Lehtonen & Falck, 2011). I assume this may have now been clarified by Christenhusz & Byng, but this will take some further research.
 
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anewbie

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Differences in appearance between these plants are apparent and seem dependent on the specific environment in the aquarium; this seems likely to also occur in nature, what can be termed transitional forms of the species. But the limited genetic variation within the complex is insufficient to establish reasonable groupings (Lehtonen & Falck, 2011). I assume this may have now been clarified by Christenhusz & Byng, but this will take some further research.
What I am missing here is if they are different because of growing environment then why don't they appear the same if you plant all three side by side in the aquarium in which they grow under identical conditions ?
 

Byron

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What I am missing here is if they are different because of growing environment then why don't they appear the same if you plant all three side by side in the aquarium in which they grow under identical conditions ?

I don't know the answer, and this has intrigued me for years. Aquarists who have several plants of a "variety" (for lack of a better word) even report them growing differently side by side in the same tank, and I certainly had adventitious plants from the same parent grow quite different heights and leaf widths in different tanks. Lehtonen said that the limited genetic variation within the complex is insufficient to establish reasonable groupings, so I am wondering if Christenhusz & Byng provide any data, since they are clearly accepting Lehtonen's phylogenetic results that the three or four "species" are in fact genetically one species. I am even more intrigued as to why these were removed from Echinodorus which still has 28 or so species. Unfortunately, tracing botanical scientific papers is considerably more challenging that ichthyological which can be done through the California Academy of Sciences' Catalog of Fishes. Botanically there was the Plant Name Index, but this is now replaced by another, and they give the date of the paper but no data. Google Scholar even let me down. I am still unable to track down data on the new genus.
 

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