Very Poorly Robin Gourami

[SW Fish Lover]

hi

hope I'm doing this right as i am new to this website.

we have a 30gallon biorb tank (heard not great but inherited it so thought we would give it a go before moving on to a large rectangular glass tank)

in the tank we have:

2 black phantoms
2 robin gourami
1 honey gourami
2 'common' shrimp

I dont know the gender of any of the fish so I will refer to them all as him/he for continuity.

we did have another honey gourami but he/she died 10 days ago of an unknown ailment - he went very pale, stopped eating, his back was bent and he would sit on the bottom of the tank and just face upwards. we put a pot in the top of the tank to stop the other fish attacking him and it then became apparent that he lay on an angle, not right over on his side but not straight.

now we have a very poorly robin gourami - symptoms - very pale, almost greyish in colour, has had 'white'/'clear' cotton like stuff trailing behind him from where his faeces normal comes, it is about 3 times the length of him. he had it yesterday but it fell off and i 'think' he did a normal pooh after that, but the white stuff is back again now. he's very lethargic and just hangs around the top (sometimes the bottom) of the tank. he's been keeping his upper and lower fins tight to his body over the past couple of days but seemed to relax them a little more earlier. he's had his tail nipped a little bit by the other fish and has in the past 1/2 hour or so been hassled by the other fish and shrimps, so I have put him in the pot floating in the top of the tank (as you cant get hospital tanks for biorbs - an the shrimp seem very keen to get in there, until I walked up the tank and they swam off. he's swimming around in there quite well so i am hoping its not too late to diagnose and treat this poor little fish.

all the tests - nitrate, nitrite, ammonia and so on are 0 and the ph is around 7.2 - the temp is 26.7 C

also, gouramis have 2 long thin fins at the front which look a little like feelers, the honey gourami that died had these constantly pointing forward for the last couple of days he was with us, this poorly robin gourami seems to be doing the same.

the tank has a 10% water change every week, the filter is cleaned in the old tank water that is taken out. we have several plants all doing well and the other fish, at present seem ok. one of the shrimps shed its skin the other day so they seem very happy. we have substrate at the bottom of the tank. my partner does the cleaning and such like but he's at work so I cant tell you anymore i'm afraid.

i cant see any sores, or white spots or growths of any form on the poorly gourami and his eyes aren't bulging. i think thats all i can think of.

any help diagnosing this would be gratefully received as i would hate to loose another little fish. they're so tiny and helpless.


SORRY JUST SEEN THIS FORM:

Tank size: 30 gallon
pH: 7.2
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
kH: dont know what this is sorry
gH: dont know what this is sorry
tank temp: 26.7 C

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): very pale, almost greyish in colour, has had 'white'/'clear' cotton like stuff trailing behind him from where his faeces normal comes, it is about 3 times the length of him. he had it yesterday but it fell off and i 'think' he did a normal pooh after that, but the white stuff is back again now. he's very lethargic and just hangs around the top (sometimes the bottom) of the tank. he's been keeping his upper and lower fins tight to his body over the past couple of days but seemed to relax them a little more earlier. he's had his tail nipped a little bit by the other fish and has in the past 1/2 hour or so been hassled by the other fish and shrimps, so I have put him in the pot floating in the top of the tank (as you cant get hospital tanks for biorbs - an the shrimp seem very keen to get in there, until I walked up the tank and they swam off. he's swimming around in there quite well

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 10% each week

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: nothing - except Prime when doing the water change

Tank inhabitants: 2 black phantoms, 2 robin gourami, 1 honey gourami, 2 'common' shrimp

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): None

Exposure to chemicals: None

Digital photo (include if possible): None at present, sorry, cant find lead for digital camera to upload.

 

[WILDER]

How old are the fish?

Bent spine means old age, fish tb, internal parasites, vitamin definciency, injury.

Signs of internal parasites are
Long stringy white poo, or clear mucas poo.
Fish will look thin or bloated.
Enlarged anus or red inflamed anus.
Bent spine sometimes.
Fish will sometimes swim on its side.
Sunken in belly.

Any signs of flicking and rubbing.
Any excess mucas on gills or body of the fish.
Do the gills look pale with excess slime, or red and inflamed.

It's rare to have a nitrate reading of 0. What your tap nitrate reading and do you have live plants in the tank.

 

[SW Fish Lover]

How old are the fish? - They aren't very old to my knowledge. We set the tank up about 2 months ago and got them from a local aquarium place then. We set the tank up with just water and plants for a couple of weeks til it cycled and then got the 2 black phantoms, then waited a couple more weeks (checking the water daily with liquid tests (not paper ones)).

Bent spine means old age, fish tb, internal parasites, vitamin definciency, injury. - the fish thats ill at the moment doesn't have a bent spine like the other one did but he is starting to look a little 'kinked' but is fine when he swims.

Signs of internal parasites are
Long stringy white poo, or clear mucas poo. - yeah he has that
Fish will look thin or bloated. - he looks thin to me, but when I compare him to the others he doesnt look that different, but its hard to tell coz they're so small, see sunken belly below.
Enlarged anus or red inflamed anus. - he doesnt appear to have these
Bent spine sometimes. - as above
Fish will sometimes swim on its side. - the one that died would lie on his side but this one is very upright at present.
Sunken in belly. - just had a really good look at him from above, and the other robin gouramis for comparison and whereas the 'healthy' one seems to taper off from head to tail in a nice > shape (if you know what I mean) - the poorly one seems to be sucked in in the middle, so I guess yes he does have a sunken belly


Any signs of flicking and rubbing. - he isn't doing this.
Any excess mucas on gills or body of the fish. - No.
Do the gills look pale with excess slime, or red and inflamed. - No, he seems pale an greyish all over, not his normal orangey/red

It's rare to have a nitrate reading of 0. What your tap nitrate reading and do you have live plants in the tank. - sorry the other half does all the tests and he's at work at the moment, I know he said all the tests were within the normal range and when I phoned the shop we bought them from, and reeled the reaings off as he told me, they said they were all normal. And YES we have 4 live plants in the tank, all doing very well.

I really appreciate the help, I really would like to save this poor little fish and keep the others healthy too. Is there anything I can give him for internal parasites if thats what he has? I live in Cornwall, if that helps with what I can buy and where I can buy it.

 

[WILDER]

Its pointing two ways. Internal parsites, fish tb.
Bent spine, sunken in belly, white stringy poo.

I think I would get an internal parasite med.
Also I will get you some tb symtoms to look at.

Ever kept any livebearers in the tank.


Loss of appetite
Progressive thinness
Sluggish movement
Folded fins
Eye protrusion
Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea (this is the first sign in Angelfish).
Skeletal deformity
Hanging at the surface
Skin defects, including blood spots and open wounds that may ulcerate
Black spots, or overall dark coloration (in Cichlids particularly).
Fin rot, characterised by the outer rays falling out.
Scales loosening and falling out
General swelling and scale protrusion (as in Dropsy)


http/www.thegreenmachineaquatics.com/mal...ol%20001/198936

 

[SW Fish Lover]

Sorry very new to all this - whats a livebearer please?

The tank was previously owned and hasnt been used for a year or two. Its sat completely empty and dry and in pieces. When we got it, we took it completely to pieces, scrubbed it inside and out, dried it, put brand new filters and so on in it, all the substrate is brand new also, as are obviously the fish and plants. We didnt use any harsh chemicals to clean it, and we rinsed it thourougly, dried it and then left it to air dry completely for a couple of days.

One thing I forgot to mention, we bought a coconut shell with a moss type plant growing on it, from the aquatic place, to give the shrimps and gouramis a place to hind and after we'd had it in the tank a day or so, I noticed a tiny (about 3/4 - 1 mm) snail in the tank that I'm asumming it came in with the coconut shell.

Is there a medication you would recommend for internal parasites please?

Thank you.

 

[WILDER]

Livebeaers are guppys, platys, mollys, endlers, swordtails.

Left a link to a med on the last reply at the bottom.

No signs of flicking and rubbing or excess slime on the fish.

What's your location for a med.

 

[SW Fish Lover]

ah in that case, NO livebearers

thank you for the link, i will look at that in a moment

no signs of flicking, rubbing or excess slime whatsoever

Cornwall for the med. think i need to buy something tomorrow rather than get something off the net or posted to me as i dont think he will survive if i wait that long.

 

[WILDER]

You can only buy that med online.

I would treat for internal parasites first to see if there any improvement.

 

[SW Fish Lover]

is there any medication you could recommend that i could get from any aquatic place, so that i could go out and buy it tomorrow please? sorry i dont mean to sound ungrateful, trust me i am very grateful for the advice, the shop told me to treat for whitespot! its just that i want to treat him asap as i really dont think he will last another day if i dont.

 

[WILDER]

If it was whitespot the fish would look like they had been sprinkled in salt, or spots the size of a grain of salt.
A greyish film on a fish.

There a waterlife med but it only controls internal parasites, dosn't cure them.
Most internal parasite meds you have to buy online.

Then it really depends which internal parasite they have.
It could even be fish tb but there not showing alot of the symtoms yet to say fish tb.

If the fish is in a really bad way he's not going to make it with the med.

 

[SW Fish Lover]

would it be an idea then to use the waterlife one, to control the parasites (assuming thats the problem) so he doesnt get any worse, then order the sera one online and use that as soon as it arrives?

would that work do you think?

 

[WILDER]

Can you post a pic of him onto the site.

It means doing a water change and running some black carbon before you add the other med.
But its up to you.
Get a link to the med.

Once a fish is showing internal parasites symtoms it already usually to late.
Internal parasites damage the organs and cause bacterial infections.

http/www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/sterazin.htm

 

[SW Fish Lover]

unfortunately I cant find the lead for my camera to upload a pic.

i hope he/she makes it, poor little thing.

the shop said to put some salt in, would that help in anyway indeed would it hurt to try it?

i will phone up re the sera med tomorrow and see if they can send it asap.

 

[WILDER]

Don't bother with the salt.
Its no good for what your fish have.

 

[SW Fish Lover]

i did wonder. well thank you so much for your help. i will give the sera place a call tomorrow morning and keep an eye on him till then. he's still quite happy swimming in his own little pot. i will try and feed him now too and see if he eats.

once again, thank you very much for your advice.