Urgent Help Needed - One dead new fish see below image.

[Ben2522]

I agree with what essjay, munroco and seangee have posted, and the data from PheonixKing.

The Tiger Barbs need a group of at least 12 (you have the space for a larger group, up to you) and they should be added together, so with five now you need to acquire 7+ ASAP. This really does make a difference to this species. Just keep in mind though, that with this species, which has a tendency to nip fins on slower less active more sedate fish, you are limiting your tankmate options. Cichlids and gouramis are out. That still leaves other cyprinids like barbs and danios, and some of the loaches, and active species of tetra.

To the loaches...this is a highly social fish (all loach species are) and a group of at least five is minimum, preferably one or two more. You have space for many of the botine species, there are several that are relatively peaceful. The clown loach though is not going to work here, the tank is way too small. I know the fish in stores seem "small" but they are juvenile, not mature fish, and as these begin growing they will reach 8 inches (20 cm) within just a few months (assuming they are in a group and healthy) and can then increase to 12 inches (30 cm). They have a strong social order, are quite rambunctious, and certainly not suited to many home aquariums. Botia kubotai, B. striata, and a couple others are suitable here, or one of the "dwarf" species. Loaches need lots of chunks of wood or similar structures, as each loach needs to select his or her "home."

To your question of the pH lowering...pH is part of the GH and KH triangle. The GH and KH will usually remain close to the source water, but pH can lower depending upon the GH and KH, and other factors like CO2. The GH is soft to very soft, and the KH is also low; nothing wrong with this, it is suited to most soft water fish species. But please do not acquire any livebearers (mollies, swordtails, platies, guppies, Endlers) because they must have moderately hard or harder water to function properly. The pH, given the GH and KH, will tend to lower as organics build in the substrate from the fish being fed, no problem there either; most soft water fish like acidic water.

Water changes...they must be more substantial. Once each week, change at least half the tank volume (at one go, not spread out). As the fish load increases, you can increase the volume of the regular weekly W/C to 60-70% which is where it should be in any fish tank. The fish will be healthier, guaranteed.

Hi, thank you for your advice. It’s interesting that so many people have completely contrasting views.done a lot of research on the clown loaches and they do socialise with other fish of similar temperament. Tiger barbs are ideal for this. It’s challenging because a know a few people who have clown loaches in 50 gal community tanks and they are happy as Larry because they were raised in that setting from young. I’m forming the opinion that it’s mainly change fish don’t like, they tend to make the best of their situation and are happy. The question i then have is. Clown loaches from the shop with me in my tank and my care and attention and research, or some random who hasent done any of what I am doing and is hoping for the best? It’s highly likely the loaches that I don’t buy would live very horrible lives... I guess it’s each time their own but very helpful and valuable advice. Definitely taken livebearers off the table though. Appreciate your input. Thanks

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Hi, thank you for your advice. It’s interesting that so many people have completely contrasting views.done a lot of research on the clown loaches and they do socialise with other fish of similar temperament. Tiger barbs are ideal for this. It’s challenging because a know a few people who have clown loaches in 50 gal community tanks and they are happy as Larry because they were raised in that setting from young. I’m forming the opinion that it’s mainly change fish don’t like, they tend to make the best of their situation and are happy. The question i then have is. Clown loaches from the shop with me in my tank and my care and attention and research, or some random who hasent done any of what I am doing and is hoping for the best? It’s highly likely the loaches that I don’t buy would live very horrible lives... I guess it’s each time their own but very helpful and valuable advice. Definitely taken livebearers off the table though. Appreciate your input. Thanks

If anyone tried to raise clown loaches in a 50G tank, they would soon find out why that’s not such a good idea...

I have seen some “Show size!” (As my LFS puts it) Clown Loaches that are over 8 inches long! They can grow to be very large.

Have you considered maybe a school of Cory cats? About 20 of those would be super cool.

 

[Ben2522]

If anyone tried to raise clown loaches in a 50G tank, they would soon find out why that’s not such a good idea...

I have seen some “Show size!” (As my LFS puts it) Clown Loaches that are over 8 inches long! They can grow to be very large.

Have you considered maybe a school of Cory cats? About 20 of those would be super cool.

Hi, I’ll keep researching and see where it goes. I’ll have a look at the corys. Thanks

 

[Byron]

Hi, thank you for your advice. It’s interesting that so many people have completely contrasting views.done a lot of research on the clown loaches and they do socialise with other fish of similar temperament. Tiger barbs are ideal for this. It’s challenging because a know a few people who have clown loaches in 50 gal community tanks and they are happy as Larry because they were raised in that setting from young. I’m forming the opinion that it’s mainly change fish don’t like, they tend to make the best of their situation and are happy. The question i then have is. Clown loaches from the shop with me in my tank and my care and attention and research, or some random who hasent done any of what I am doing and is hoping for the best? It’s highly likely the loaches that I don’t buy would live very horrible lives... I guess it’s each time their own but very helpful and valuable advice. Definitely taken livebearers off the table though. Appreciate your input. Thanks

My intention here is to explain not argue, so please keep that in mind.

There is a fair bit of misleading and inaccurate information in this hobby. Not everyone has spent the time to study fish physiology and environmental habitats, and some people refuse to listen to those who have. Anyone can set up a website and promote utter nonsense. None of it is worth the time to even listen to, unless you know that the knowledge/training of the individual behind it does actually qualify them. This is a scientific hobby, and everything inside the aquarium is governed by the rules of science, whether chemistry or biology. None of us is going to change these.

Shoaling fish have an expectation programmed into their DNA that they will live in a shoal or group of their own species. This is a very different matter than any fish being "social" in an aquarium. Botine loaches develop an hierarchy within the group of their species, and this occurs very early on when a group are placed together in the confines of an aquarium (whatever the tank size). Scientific studies have shown that when a shoaling species is denied an adequate number, it has consequences on the fish's behaviour. It causes stress. Stress impacts the fish's physiology, and weakens the immune system. All sorts of problems follow, which would never occur if the fish were not inadequately housed or maintained.

Tank size also impacts the fish similarly to inadequate numbers, with the same results. It has nothing to do with Tiger Barbs. The tank mentioned is no where near sufficient space for a group of clown loaches. That is just scientific fact.

None of us can say that any fish is "happy." Fish forced into making the best of a poor situation is debilitating to the fish, and it is cruel and inhumane. Read the two citations in my signature block. We can however assume it is not healthy when it is forced into situations that are not what it "expects," such as numbers of its own species and adequate tank size and aquascaping to allow it to be "itself." There is plenty of scientific evidence across the animal world that proves the sense of this logic.

The fate of the fish in the store is not your responsibility. But how you treat them when you decide to acquire them is, and if any one of us cannot provide what the fish are known to require, we should not have them.

 

[Ben2522]

My intention here is to explain not argue, so please keep that in mind.

There is a fair bit of misleading and inaccurate information in this hobby. Not everyone has spent the time to study fish physiology and environmental habitats, and some people refuse to listen to those who have. Anyone can set up a website and promote utter nonsense. None of it is worth the time to even listen to, unless you know that the knowledge/training of the individual behind it does actually qualify them. This is a scientific hobby, and everything inside the aquarium is governed by the rules of science, whether chemistry or biology. None of us is going to change these.

Shoaling fish have an expectation programmed into their DNA that they will live in a shoal or group of their own species. This is a very different matter than any fish being "social" in an aquarium. Botine loaches develop an hierarchy within the group of their species, and this occurs very early on when a group are placed together in the confines of an aquarium (whatever the tank size). Scientific studies have shown that when a shoaling species is denied an adequate number, it has consequences on the fish's behaviour. It causes stress. Stress impacts the fish's physiology, and weakens the immune system. All sorts of problems follow, which would never occur if the fish were not inadequately housed or maintained.

Tank size also impacts the fish similarly to inadequate numbers, with the same results. It has nothing to do with Tiger Barbs. The tank mentioned is no where near sufficient space for a group of clown loaches. That is just scientific fact.

None of us can say that any fish is "happy." Fish forced into making the best of a poor situation is debilitating to the fish, and it is cruel and inhumane. Read the two citations in my signature block. We can however assume it is not healthy when it is forced into situations that are not what it "expects," such as numbers of its own species and adequate tank size and aquascaping to allow it to be "itself." There is plenty of scientific evidence across the animal world that proves the sense of this logic.

The fate of the fish in the store is not your responsibility. But how you treat them when you decide to acquire them is, and if any one of us cannot provide what the fish are known to require, we should not have them.

Hi. I appreciate your experience and will certainly take all into account. To be honest I’m happy with the tiger barbs so will fill it with as may as I can stock. Well a little room for another group. How many tiger barbs to this tank. Also if I were to place some other fish in there, looking for as colourful as possible. The corys Iv looked at aren’t that colourful. Any compatible very colourful fish and how many overall you think?

 

[Essjay]

There is one thing you could consider. Tiger barbs come in different colours. Besides the natural coloured ones you have there are also green and albino tiger barbs. If you consider these to look sufficiently different and colourful, a tank of mixed colour tiger barbs would solve any compatibility issues.

 

[Ben2522]

There is one thing you could consider. Tiger barbs come in different colours. Besides the natural coloured ones you have there are also green and albino tiger barbs. If you consider these to look sufficiently different and colourful, a tank of mixed colour tiger barbs would solve any compatibility issues.

Ok. How many you think in this sized tank total?

 

[seangee]

It is tempting to aim for a variety to make the tank look more interesting and colourful. I used to do exactly the same. A few years ago I started increasing the sizes of my groups and after seeing the difference in their behaviour I will continue to have larger groups and less variety. I have 3 tanks and each of these has at least 30 of at least 1 species. In 1 tank I only have a single species of fish (there are also shrimp). Another has only 2 species and the third is a much bigger tank.

Just as an example many people consider cardinal tetras to be boring and old school. We often get questions about so called centrepiece fish. Well I have 30 something cardinal tetras in my living room tank. They are the centrepiece

 

[Byron]

To be honest I’m happy with the tiger barbs so will fill it with as may as I can stock. Well a little room for another group. How many tiger barbs to this tank. Also if I were to place some other fish in there, looking for as colourful as possible. The corys Iv looked at aren’t that colourful. Any compatible very colourful fish and how many overall you think?

Tiger Barbs are fine, and you have the space (240 liters or 60 gallons) for a proper-sized group which is minimum 12, but you could easily have 30-40 if this is the only species (and there are varieties as essjay mentioned that are the same species so they are considered as "one" species). Just get the rest of the intended group ASAP to avoid problems.

If you want another species for the upper level to share with the TB, then 12-15 or even 20 TB would be fine. Along with another active fish that complements the natural boisterous nature of TB, say another peaceful barb, or a danio species. You just cannot have sedate fish, or fish with long flowing fins as these are inevitably going to be harassed to the point of death in time.

Substrate fish...cories (there are more than 160 described species) will work, in a group of at least 15 up to 20 or 25 (partly depending upon the upper fish decisions). One of the smaller loaches like the two I earlier mentioned. A group of minimum 5, up to maybe 10-12 for this sized tank, again subject to other fish decisions.

 

[Munroco]

Pygmy chain loaches have always been a fish I'd like to keep but never had the proper space for them. Have a look at them on your google travels. I reckon they would fit in nicely with your tiger barbs.

 

[Colin_T]

The Tiger Barb in the picture appears to have a bacterial infection (red belly). It is also skinny. The fish might have been on its way out when you got it.

Monitor the remaining fish for similar symptoms and if more die, then you will probably need to treat them with a broad spectrum fish medication. However, don't treat them unless more start to get red sores/ patches on the body, or they die.

 

[Ben2522]

The Tiger Barb in the picture appears to have a bacterial infection (red belly). It is also skinny. The fish might have been on its way out when you got it.

Monitor the remaining fish for similar symptoms and if more die, then you will probably need to treat them with a broad spectrum fish medication. However, don't treat them unless more start to get red sores/ patches on the body, or they die.

Thanks for this. Yea because of corona virus I don’t think the fish have been looked after in the shop. Should they be fatter than this even though only about an inch long? Are they still just young?

 

[Colin_T]

the fish in the picture should be slightly deeper in the body and also fatter too.

 

[Ben2522]

the fish in the picture should be slightly deeper in the body and also fatter too.

@JuiceBox52
Hi all, another barb has died. Was fine all day been in tank 2 days. Parameters are all the same as yesterday as above in thread. This one had no symptoms or marks. It was the biggest of the lot. Others “seem” fine. It’s been mentioned they are very thin. Iv ordered another 10 from a different shop to make the group bigger as advised here. Any idea and should I cancel the order? Really not sure what’s going on. Temp 26.5-27. PH at 5.4. GH 1-3 Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5-10. Are all these fish going to die like this? Or is it normal to lose a few in first few days of movement from shop? The shop obviously hasent looked after them... as much detail as possible needed please. Thanks in advance.

 

[seangee]

Unless you have a quarantine tank I wold hold off on the order until you figure out what is going on and, if neccessary, put an end to it. If it is an infection of some sort, and @Colin_T has considerable experience in identification and treatment of problems, there is a risk of passing this on to any new fish that are introduced.