Totally New

[AquaBaz]

Hey everyone, I have been reading this site for quite awhile reading up on what fish need what and illnesses ect in an attempt to make myself a little more knowledgeable before I go out and buy myself a Tank. I eventually went and got one on Tuesday. It was second hand and came with a filter (which has lost its sticker so I have no idea what it is or what litres it is for but it seems WAAAY too powerful for fish!) He also gave me some media in a bag of water from his other tank. The spongy thing. It doesnt fit in the filter I got so he said place it under the filter where the main suction is and it will help. Anyways...

I set the tank up that night (so 2 days ago) and every day I have been adding the stress coat and stress zime (spelling? not near the bottle) and doing small water changes. I am hoping to add some fishes soon but not until I know the cycling is doing it's job. I'm getting some water from a friend who is mid-cycle so has some ammonia in his tank and add it to mine so I can monitor when it finally has vanished indicating that the filter is starting the cycle and its safe to add one or two fish. Since there are no fish in the tank I figured this was the best way to get it going without getting all technical and doing the fishless cycle thing?

What I want to know, having read all about the nitrogen cycle... how does Stress zime effect the cycle? The fish shop near me said I could add fish almost straight away (after it's been set up a week for their policy) if I use it. Surely this can't be right? Anyway, I've been doing water changes every other day + using this stress coat and zime and restocking the ammonia on the days in between.

Now can anyone help me understand how the nitrogen cycle works with the additional aid of stress zime? From what it says it's suggesting the filter is virtually cycled if you add a dose on every water change, on the 1st day, 4th, 7th and 14th day... Is this right? Is this how you do a quick fishless cycle? Just add stress zime as directed without the fish present? I'M LOST! Please help!

I am eager to get my first fish, as you can imagine, but I am also patient enough to wait for the tank to be ready before blindly following fish shop advice and throwing a fish in after 7 days. Oh and there are also some live plants in there donated by a friend. The tank is 54litres I think? 60cm x 30cm x 30cm.

Any advice on stocking said tank when it is ready would be nice too.

Many thanks and I apologise for the essay above! Only I'm eager, confused and lost! lol

 

[drobbyb]

To be honest with you, I don't believe that Stress Zyme does anything at all, and I'm sure you will find that the members here don't think alot about it either.

Speaking from personal experience, I used to use it believing that maybe it would do something, but sadly the only thing it did for me was to lighten my wallet. The only starter bacteria that did anything for me was Bio-Spira but they do not make it anymore.

Patience! Your experience will be so much better if you continue to do a fishless cycle. Really, it's the best way to cycle your tank and it's less work for you and better for your fish.

HTH!

 

[fatheadminnow]

to TFF!

First of all, stress zyme has no effect and will not help the cycling in anyway. So, you can continue to use it but it will do nothing, so I would just throw it away. Stress zyme is nothing but snake oil.

The stress coat is a REALLY water conditioner and you need to add it to your tank every time you add water.

Do you have a test kit to test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH? If not, go out and purchase a LIQUID test kit. Strip test kits are no good and inaccurate!

For a fishless cycle, you NEED to be adding a source of ammonia, and water from your friends tank is not going to be sufficient enough to do so. Any hardware store should carry an ammonia solution with about 9.5-10% diluted ammonia.

Read here about how to do a proper fishless cycle: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

Glad to see you are doing a fishless cycle and not a fish-in cycle! A fishless cycle should take about 4-6 weeks to complete.

So, get a bottle of ammonia and get a good LIQUID test kit! The API freshwater master test kit is a really good test kit to get!

-FHM

 

[arobinson1984]

Read the links in my signature,

Especially the one regarding fishless cycling. The water from your friend with 'ammonia' in it wont really do much good to be honest. You need to get some pure ammonia from a hardware store. A fishless cycle isnt very technical and is quite straight forward.

Are you in the UK? USA?

You will really be better trying to get the sponge media your friend gave you into your filter, even if this means having to cut it a little with some scissors to make it fit.

If the media you were given was mature then the tank will probably be half way to being cycled so a fishless cycle I'd expect to complete within a couple of weeks, but the longer you leave the mature media in there without giving it a source of ammonia, the bacteria will be dying off.

Like I said, read the following links in my sig

What is cycling?
The nitrogen Cycling
Fishless Cycling

Andy

 

[AquaBaz]

hey thanks for the advice. I'm in the UK. I think I'll go out and buy some ammonia tomorrow... what are the chances of B&Q having it? lol

I read the links in your sig Andy, very informative and I appreciate it, thank you! I think I'll try the "Add and Wait" method. Also today my wife went Xmas shopping and bought me a new filter. I used the search for the filter mentioned on here anywhere else and only one popped up, which is another post (today I think) suggesting using it with Ammo-Chips? Not really interested in that part but the filter is TetraTEC IN600 plus. She figured a second hand filter would be pointless and thought I would appreciate a new filter lol (That's why she's my wife, looks after me lol). Anyway, the flow rate on this new one is far lower than the current one which when on creates a whirlpool almost on the surface! I'd hate to see a fish swim through that! So looks like as of tomorrow, with the introduction of that new filter officially, I will be doing the fish-less cycle properly.

I noticed there is a "Mature Media Donation" link on here... would it be easier to just see if anyone has any to donate? Would that allow me to skip the whole fish-less cycle part and just add some ammonia daily to feed the bacteria until I have chosen my fish? (I also know a shop offering it as they are changing their displays around and reducing the amount of tanks they have). Would this be the easiest and quickest way?

Many thanks!

Baz!

Oh and I got myself an API master test kit the day I got the tank (from reading up, I KNEW I needed it rather than the test strips). But it doesn't measure KH and GH

 

[AquaBaz]

If the filter is second hand, I am right in thinking the filter is as useless as a brand new filter because it was out of the water for just under a day before I put it back in water...? If I am right, this means the bacteria is dead correct?

 

[arobinson1984]

Some of the bacteria may have died but there may still be some left to be beneficial, I would add the mature media to the new filter anyway, either that or as you mentioned check out the media donation section to see if anyone is close to you. Adding mature media may instantly cycle the tank depending on how much you stock it, basically if the fish you put in your tank create the same amount or less waste than the fish in the tank the mature media came from then it would be instantly cycled.

I'm not too sure about B&Q, the best places to get the ammonia is boots, homebase or robert dyas.

Andy

 

[craig855s]

1. The bacteria within the filter could very well be dead yes, but there may be some present,and if you have mature sponge in your tank you may see your cycle time reduced by a couple of weeks or so.
2. Ammonia can be bought from boots, definately, its where i got mine from, it's used as a cleaning product and to remove stains from clothes so it will be in those sections of the shop
3.Where are you in the UK,i could donate some media to you if you need more?
4.Stress-zyme is pointless,cease using it
5.Stress coat is a water conditioner, you add x amount of it for every x litres of tapwater you place in a bucket to do water changes,never put straight tapwater into your tank without adding the water conditioner (and you may want to switch from stress-coat once you run out and move onto something more concentrated/cheaper)
6. Dont do water change while doing the add-and-wait method...unless you accidently overdose the ammonia (you want ammonia to be between 0ppm and 5ppm to get the cycle done,if it goes higher the cycle may stall)

Once you are cycled you do your massive water change,test the water (to ensure you are at 0 ammonia,0 nitrite and low nitrates (less than 10-20 for the uk) and then go out and buy and add your fish

 

[arobinson1984]

Just picking up on what craig said, if you add too much ammonia (above 8ppm) then a different form of bacteria grows which you dont want.

In the add and wait method, it advises you to add ammonia upto 5ppm, this is fine, as is 4ppm. At the top of the page is a link to the aquarium calculator which will help you calculate how much ammonia you need to add to your size tank to gain the targeted level of ammonia. Its much better to add a little less than it says, you can always add a little more later. If you add too much you end up having to do a large water change and start again.

Also regarding the stress coat, there are many better and cheaper dechlorinators on the markets which you may want to consider when your current one runs out, seachem prime is a good one for beginners, its fairly concentrated making it cheaper.

Have you got yourself a test kit? You'll need a good liquid based test kit, dont get the test strips they are useless. The recommended liquid test would be the the API freshwater master kit which can be bought fairly cheaply from either ebay or charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk

Andy

 

[AquaBaz]

hey thanks for the advice there guys. Just what I'm in need of! The wife just looked on boots site to see I was right saying boots had it lol It's 9.5% w/w whatever the w/w stands for...

I do have the api test kit as well

Oh and I got myself an API master test kit the day I got the tank (from reading up, I KNEW I needed it rather than the test strips). But it doesn't measure KH and GH

I didnt realise the beneficial bacteria would survive that long, I always thought the bacteria would die off after 30minutes...

Oh and I live Exeter, Devon.

With regards to the water conditioners, I have the stress zyme and stress coat, but I noticed something in now4pets not long ago where they had a mass bottle of water conditioner, like 2.5ltrs or maybe 5 ltrs... for £40. Is it worth buying that? I have no idea what the brand is... I think it might have been something like nutrifin? I also have Seachem's "Stability"... which was given to me by a friend (same one who gave me the water). He says he was recommended it by someone who has been doing it for years but I wasn't sure... Anyone know if its any cop? Or should I pour that one away too?

 

[arobinson1984]

When it comes to dechlorinators, I tend to stick to the known brands. Seachem prime is a good one whilst you get your tank established etc, but once the tank is matured, you can use pond dechlorinators, they basically do the same job but are much more concentrated. I use tetrapond aquasafe which cost me about £16 from ebay for a 1L (1000ml) bottle and my 125L tank only needs 7ml for the whole tank so it'll last about 140 water changes which with one a week will last nearly 3 years.

The w/w on the ammonia stands for 'with water' as far as I'm aware, I could be wrong. That is the correct ammonia, it has to only have water and ammonia in it which that one does.

Bacteria wont last long out of water, mature media should be kept wet. The bacteria will die off at the rate of about 10% every 24 hours without an ammonia source but it will die off a lot quicker if the media is kept out of water.

Andy

 

[AquaBaz]

How do I PM ppl? I had a look at the two members listed as donators of mature media for Devon East... but when I click on their profiles, where it says PM there is no link or anything. Not sure how I can do it. Would love to be able to get my hands on some mature media for this new filter! And at the same time, maybe meet some new people locally who actually enjoy the hobby! As loyal and loving as my wife is, the mention of fish or tank just seems to cause her to shut down! lol

At least now I have my tank! And once cycled, some fish! I finally have an excuse to use the forums. Probably better than boring the wife to sleep

 

[drobbyb]

That's because you don't have enough posts to PM. You need a moderator to unlock that for you. I'm not sure how many posts you need though to unlock it without a mod's help. Anyone know?

 

[oswoldy]

How do I PM ppl? I had a look at the two members listed as donators of mature media for Devon East... but when I click on their profiles, where it says PM there is no link or anything. Not sure how I can do it. Would love to be able to get my hands on some mature media for this new filter! And at the same time, maybe meet some new people locally who actually enjoy the hobby! As loyal and loving as my wife is, the mention of fish or tank just seems to cause her to shut down! lol

At least now I have my tank! And once cycled, some fish! I finally have an excuse to use the forums. Probably better than boring the wife to sleep

Hi,
I assume you have added me because you are after some mature media, as you cannot PM yet email me @ (email removed as you can now PM) I will reply (Prob Tomorrow now ) with my mobile number so you can give me a call about getting some media.

Regards
Mike

 

[OldMan47]

The forum is set to only allow a PM after a person has at least 10 posts. That is not intended to interfere with a true participant making a post. Instead it is intended to stop spammers from just randomly sending people PMs right after they sign in. After a typical spammer gets on the forum, it happens too often, we usually pick up on it after they have made only one or two posts and ban them. At least we can keep them from bothering everyone with PMs as well. Why not have a look around and answer somebody's question AquaBaz. One simple post on any subject and you will be able to PM people when you think you should.