To crop & dock or Not ??

[Bloo]

I saw a few comments that made me wonder what the general consensus is here ?

I personally think cropping is cruel and should be banned outright (it is in the UK already). Though docking (of tails) is not encouraged, it's not against the law (in the UK). Should it be ?
Do you have a dog with cropped ears or docked tail ?
And if so, what do you think about it ?

If you are thinking of getting a dog, but the "breed standard" has docked tails & cropped ears, would you buy from a breeder with such puppies, or would you go out of your way to find one that doesn't ?

I've googled some websites for any reference and information on either procedure:

Here is one from the Anti Docking Alliance (UK).

Here is one from Stop the Crops in the USA.

Oh and here's an interesting article on different types of cropping in Dobermann's.

This is a pic of my (RIP) Dobermann, and I know I'm biased, but I preferred her with uncropped ears - though her tail was docked. If I had another Dobermann, I'd again have one with uncropped ears and a docked tail (that's probably hypocritical I know).

 

[Haiku]

I am HIGHLY against cropping, and do not care for docking unless for medical reasons (i.e. badly broken tail or something). Docking is not as severe and radical a procedure, not to mention not near as painful, as cropping, so I can accept it while I would still prefer it not be done personally. I like dogs to be the way they were born, the way I feel nature intended. I don't hate people who have it done, but I hate the practice itself.

 

[red-devil0602]

cropping is totally cosmetic unless your fighting them i don't mind docking as long as it is done for the safety of the dog ie it's a working dog where a long tail can be hazardous maybe otherwise whats the point

 

[kimbowee]

I personnally think cropping & docking should be banned in the US. I have never had it done to any of my dogs as I wouldn't like it being done to me. I had a Great Dane who we never cropped his ears & he was gorgeous anyways. When I was a kid my Dad had a Dobe & I remember what a hard time we had when we got his ears cropped. Poor dog had to walk around with tampons stuck in his ears for like 4 months.

Unfortunately, when getting a dog here where it is standard to have the tails docked, the breeders usually does it at around 1-4 days old. So unless you get to pick your pup the day it is born you usually don't get the option of picking to dock or not.

I used to work in a Vets office & I would always refuse to help if they were docking or cropping.


EDIT: No that is not a pic of my Dane in my Avatar, I just thought it was cute!

 

[Haiku]

Here is an interesting page on both the pro-side and con-side of tail docking. I have leanings towards the con side as I said.

http/www.doglinks.co.nz/taildocking.htm

 

[OohFeeshy]

I don't see how we have the right to change the appearance/mutilate another animal for our own ends. If they needed their tail docked, they'd be born that way. Well, they aren't.

 

[julibob]

My breed (Briards) have never been docked, but have been cropped in the past by many countries. Briards have never had ears cropped in the UK. All creatures were created the way they were/are, "Who are we to tamper with nature???"

A photo of my baby with "natural ears"

A briard with "cropped ears"

 

[black angel]

i voted docking ok cropping not. my own dog is a pointer and she has been docked. I think it should only be done for working breeds and if i ever get another pointer then i wont be bothered either way as i wont be working it. But saying that, if she goes after a scent and she goes into the gorse then she would be in big trouble as her breed wags the tail when it has a scent.

as for clipping the ears,thats only for cosmetic reasons and i dont think is really necessary..

 

[MAM]

If you read the link Haiku provided it gives some insight into the history of cropping and docking. It was done for specific reasons so that working dogs could do their job without tails or ears being an issue, along with the health and hygiene issues of the day (for example, terriers were basically ratters, so having a shorter tail and non-dangling ears made sense, same with dobies). But most dogs today are not working dogs, they are companion dogs, making docking and cropping essentially pointless and uneccessary. However, tradtions hold strong and I don't see the practice going away completely any time soon. It IS becoming more common to see purebreds that have not been cropped or docked, but it has yet to catch on with everyone. As for being a showing standard, that is something that will probably take even longer to change. They are groups steeped in tradition where change is rare (just accepting in new breeds or changes to a single breed's standards are a long term process).

Now I have a miniature pinscher that I got from the pound. Her tail and ears were already done when I got her. I love her little stub of tail and her perky ears. But I also love the natural look. Would I dock and crop were I to ever get a puppy min pin or other dog? Probably not. Do I look down on people who DO decide to do this? No. While its not a necessary procedure, vets today have the education and technology to perform the procedures safely and to minimize the overall pain of the procedure and the post-procedure healing time. Granted, the dog doesn't choose to go through the procedure, but you could almost look at like a human undergoing cosmetic surgery. If it is done properly by a trained professional, there won't be life-long ill-effects from it, they'll live a perfectly happy normal life, just with a short tail and standing up ears...............

 

[kimbowee]

I just went to visit the AKC site & it seems they have changed their stance on cropping of ears in the past five years. When I owned my Great Dane he was considered disqualified for show because I had failed to have his ears cropped. He could only compete in the Obedience arena.

I do have to raise an issue with the docking of tails. I worked at 2 different vets & have also with a variety of breeders. When they dock a pups tail the pup is not put under any aenesthic (sp?). This is done while they are only a couple of days old & are just usually snipped with a pair of scissors. I don't care how painless some people think this procedure is. The pups yelp and cry when this is being done and for a little while after. I haven't worked at a vets office in about 4 years so hopefully the practice has changed by now, but highly doubt it.

I do understand why it used to be done, but how many people still send Min pinchers into holes? Pointers can still point with a full tail.

I just think it is inhumane to do this to animals. Just like I think it is wrong to declaw a cat. How would someone like it if all of their fingernails were ripped out? Not a pleasant experience. But I guess I will save that for another topic.


Sorry, dont mean to rant. Guess you hit a soft spot with me Blozoo.

 

[Bloo]

I just think it is inhumane to do this to animals. Just like I think it is wrong to declaw a cat. How would someone like it if all of their fingernails were ripped out? Not a pleasant experience.  But I guess I will save that for another topic. 


Sorry, dont mean to rant. Guess you hit a soft spot with me Blozoo.

Not at all - everyone has an opinion and it's fine to debate and discuss in a civil manner

There was quite a thread about declawing lately - I'll see if I can find it for you.

Here you go - it's been discussed (quite heatedly!) thoroughly fairly recently

De-clawing cats, yay or nay?

indoor cats, debate debate debate

 

[gaya]

Here you go - it's been discussed (quite heatedly!) thoroughly fairly recently

De-clawing cats, yay or nay?

I still haven’t done anything with my dam cat. The other night he grabbed onto the skin between my toes and didn’t let go. It still hurts. Coincidently, a couple of days ago I ran into a cat person who gave me the number to a vet who will take any cat and gives yearly deals for those press on nails.

 

[Angry_Platy]

I have a Jack Russell Terrier, a breed whom for many years always had their tails docked. In July 2004 it became illegal to dock their tails in Australia (well, illegal to dock any dogs tails). Ours was born in April 2004 and he never had his tail docked. I can't imagine him with no tail. I see other Jack Russels at the beach and the like and they kinda look weird. My dog prances around as if to say "my tails bigger than yours" I don't see the need for tail docking. If the dog was born with a tail then it should have a tail IMHO. Working breed or not.

I do know people that show their JRTs both with docked and undocked tails. Here in Australia it is acceptable in the showring for both at the moment however as the years go on there will be gradually more undocked dogs until there are no docked dogs in the ring at all. Its funny hearing them talk though, there were never rules for how the tail should look but now there are new rules coming out, there is a LOT of debate. Like can it curl and how much. If it does curl back does it have to be straight and if not how much leeway is allowed.

As for ear cropping I know nothing about it so prolly shpuldn't comment though. But in regards to my other argument, I believe if the dog is born a certain way it should stay a certain way. Who are we to impose our vanity upon our little puppies. Is it really that "important" that we need to put our poor animals through unncessary pain?

People need to love their dogs for what they were born as not "well, it will be perfect when I chop its tail off and clip its ears back"

 

[splashluff]

NO to both, generally. But if the dog is going to be a working dog and not a pet and they have a high risk of breaking or maiming their tail, docking is ok. My friend has 4 working docked Australian Shepherds, they herd all day in tail grass, burrs, and if they had tails they'd be torn up by now. They also have a working Border Collie with a docked tail.

I still think its sick when breeders dock ALL of the pups, knowing that all of them will simply be pets. It's totally for aesthetic reasons, at the puppy's expense .. I hate that they don't numb the tail, it does have nerves and the puppies can feel it. To me, it's like circumcizing babies with scissors, no numbing, and thats it. That said, having no tail is also a HUGE disadvantage to the dogs later in life... tail carriage and posture is essential in socializing with other dogs.

Ear cropping is just gross. Every person I've met that cropped their puppies ears once refuses to ever do it again and regrets it every day.

 

[cheekeyarab]

First things first Julibob you dog looks far better looking without cropped ears than the one with them looks.

Secondly cropping and/or docking is senseless and cruel. Of course there are exceptions, like working dogs, but a lot of owners just get it done so their dog looks right.
I believe you should get a pet in order to give it a good life. It is important to consider what you want in a pet. If you don't like a breed (e.g doberman) in it's natural form don't get it.

I personally love Golden retrievers so it is not an issue for me but I also like dobermans and if I did ever get one it would be left alone.

As for it being done at a young age by the breeder. I was looking into getting a goldie and the decent breeders have long waiting lists so you have plenty of chance to ask for a puppy to be left alone.

People, of course, have the right to disagree on this. The above is my personal opinion and no offence is meant to people who disagree.