Tank Water Trouble!

[tin_tin26]

Hey all...hope everyone is well!

I've recently taken up fish keeping and i'm having a nightmare with the water in my tank. I recently asked questions regarding cloudy water and it would appear my problem could have been a 'bacterial bloom' but things just aren't working for me. So my question is....is this maybe not a bloom and a completely different problem??

I've had great advice from lots of users, especially MW, waterdrop and BTT, and i have followed all the information provided. However, nothing seems to be working out here. (maybe im just being a little impatient/confused with it all)

This is what ive done so far....

I set my aquarium up (brand new tank, filter, lights, heater, media etc etc) about 4 weeks ago now. After 9 days i checked my water and everything seemed fine so i then introduced 8 fish. (i used Nutrafin Aqua plus to treat my tap water, and then added Nutrafin cycle to add the good bacteria and a little Nutrafin flake food. I then left the tank alone for the nine days, testing the water every other day) I'm now totally aware that this was very quick to introduce fish but i hadnt found this site and was just using my LFS for guidance...which was clearly not the best idea!! However, all my test results looked good and still do! - all through this time, my amonia, nitrate, and nitrite have remained at 0! - which is why im a bit confused!

After reading the guidance on cycling it would appear that my tank has cycled but this seems very quick eh??

Another thing is, for about 2 weeks with fish in, my tank water was crystal clear but suddenly started to get cloudy! - hense my previous post which resulted in me learning about Bacterial blooms! (every day is a school day!! )

I followed all the guidance etc but things just seemed to get worse! - so here is where i am now! -

Tonight i tested my water again using the API master test kit-

Amonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
PH - 7.4

which to me (after reading loads of posts on here would seem good??)

( i've got a 180L tank. My filter is Fluval 205. I only have 8 fish in total within my tank.)

Problem is, my water was soooo cloudy i couldnt see anything within, unless it was close to the glass at the front! So....

after advice, i decided to remove everything from the tank! (plants, castles etc)...the only thing left is the gravel and water...and ofcourse, the filter pipes! - i then used my gravel vac and did a thorough clean of the gravel which resulted in about a 50% water change!

All ive done is added my Nutrafin Aqua plus to condition the water then added the fresh 50% back into the tank.

Can anybody tell me if what i'm doing is correct, and what the problem could be if not a bloom??

plus...all my fish seem to be doing really well! - it's all just a bit weird!!

(sorry to write such a long post but i wanted to provide as much info as possible, in the hope someone can help.)

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Tolak]

I did a quick review on the previous topics, MW, BTT, & Waterdrop gave some great info. BTT's topic on bacterial blooms is one of the best ones I've seen.

The water conditioner you are using, Nutrafin Aqua Plus, does nothing for the ammonia created when you split chloramine into its components, chlorine & ammonia. While this may be a slight problem, feeding a little extra ammonia when you do water changes, the bigger problem I see is that Aqua Plus is not one of the top rated dechlorinators.

As a rule, never trust your water supplier when it comes to aquatics. They do a wonderful job keeping water fit for human consumption, adding more disinfectants (chlorine & chloramine) whenever they deem necessary. Their main concern is human health, if someone looses a tank of fish they really don't care.

It takes a lot of research to find out if, when, and why your water supplier might do this. Erring on the side of caution, I would pick up a better water conditioner, Seachem Prime or Tetra AquaSafe. Double dose with this. Excess disinfectants that are not removed will affect the cycling process, slowing it significantly.

Bacterial blooms are free floating nitrifying bacteria that haven't found a suitable surface to adhere to. The most suitable is your filter media. They will keep multiplying as long as there is food, which is generally fish waste and deteriorating fish food. If you feed less, the fish produce less waste, and there will be less uneaten food deteriorating.

Fish are cold blooded, and can get by on much less food than warm blooded animals. Long ago I remember reading that a fish's stomach is about the size of it's eye. Count up eyes, guesstimate that amount of food, and feed that amount every three days, that's it.

 

[Schmill]

I've not read the other topics (I don't think.. well, not just now anyway!), but having 0 NitrAtes in any tank that has fish in it would seem unusual to me.
What does you tap water test at?
Do you have live plants in the tank, if so is it 'just a few' or 'densly planted' ?
Was the test above performed before or after your clean & 50% water change?

Generally a water change won't cause any harm, (unless your in the middle of a course of medication), so thats a good way to go, but also remember that 'cloudy' water itself doesn't affect the fish, it's just US that like it crystal clear . Of course sometimes there is an underlying reason to the cloudiness, and hence thats what we are trying to find

 

[OldMan47]

One thing to piggy back on Tolak's post. I was at a club meeting Saturday and they put out the information that the local water company will be treating at 2 to 3 times normal levels of chlorine for the next 10 weeks. It seems that they have installed a new water treatment plant but because all the piping and so on is new, they will be using the extra chlorine to make everything safe for people. I don't know that anybody in that town who wasn't at the meeting would know that. To me it would be worth a phone call if you have any suspicion at all about your local water supply. Most water people don't want to panic their customers so they just don't tell them when they are doing an extra water treatment. They really don't want people wondering why it is needed.

 

[tin_tin26]

Should try cleaning the filter media with tank water and possibly replacing carbon?

 

[Tolak]

No reason to run carbon, no reason to clean the media unless the flow has slowed significantly.

 

[tin_tin26]

thanks for the advice so far!

im just about to test the water again! - i will also post tap water results!

 

[tin_tin26]

I've jus tested my tank and tap water and now im even more confused!!

When i test my tap water, do i just do this the same way i test my tank water? (with same kit etc??)

If so, here are my results -

TAP -

Amonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
PH - 7.8

Tank -

Amonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
PH - 7.0

Is this normal?

 

[backtotropical]

I've jus tested my tank and tap water and now im even more confused!!

When i test my tap water, do i just do this the same way i test my tank water? (with same kit etc??)

If so, here are my results -

TAP -

Amonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
PH - 7.8

Tank -

Amonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
PH - 7.0

Is this normal?

Hi Tin Tin,

Did you test the tap water straight after drawing it from the tap?

I ask because your water company will likely use chlorine to treat the water. Chlorine is very alkaline and will raise the pH of the tap water. If you let the water stand, the chlorine will simply gas off and this can lower the pH, hence why the pH in the tank may be lower than water straight from the tap.

To test, draw water from the tap, test the pH. Leave it to stand overnight and then test the pH again. This may give you the answer to your pH difference.

Otherwise it may be something as simple as bogwood in your tank lowering the pH.

Back to the bloom, you say you have done a thorough gravel vac which is good. Cut back feeding to every 2nd or 3rd day and make sure there is no food left in the tank after feeding. Make sure there are no dead fish or plants lying around too.

As a precaution, its a good idea to increase aeration in the tank, as the blooming bacteria can be a big drain on the dissolved oxygen. This won't actually help clear the bloom, but your fish will appreciate it if oxygen is low because of the bloom.

On top of this, do a quick gravel vac every day and if it doesn't clear in a few days, i'd say it's not a bacterial bloom and we need to re-diagnose.

The first alternative diagnosis which springs to mind is dust from your gravel / sand. Did you wash it properly before adding it to the tank? If it is dust, your external filter should clear it up quite quickly. You could check by opening the filter to see if the media is covered in dust.

That's my thoughts for tonight. Keep us updated.

BTT

 

[waterdrop]

I think Tolak's suggestion of trying a bottle of Prime and using it at double dose for the next several water changes is one of the best ideas so far.

Tin, can you tell us again: You're doing what size water changes and how often? Did you have a lot of live plants before you took them out & are they still out?

Just since we're "grasping at straws" here: Can you describe, say, an ammonia test? Its the API Freshwater Master Test Kit, right?

So you fill your little glass test tube with 5ml of tank water, so that the meniscus is over the white line on the test tube, right? Then you invert test bottle #1 and hold it straight up and drip in 8 drops. Then you invert bottle#2 and drip in 8 drops of that. Then you cap the test tube, shake hard for a count of 5 or 6 and then start your stopwatch and let it go 5 minutes, right?
Then you read it with the test tube against the white area right next to the colors on the color card and several inches away from a bright light that's pointing away from you, or some kind of good illumination like that. And you're seeing a really pure translucent bright yellow for zero, right?

And remind me of the tank volume in Litres,gallons again? And its 8 fish, 8" of fish body?

And the white cloudiness has been how many days (?) out of how many days total water in tank days (?)

Thanks, ~~waterdrop~~

 

[tin_tin26]

Back to the bloom, you say you have done a thorough gravel vac which is good. Cut back feeding to every 2nd or 3rd day and make sure there is no food left in the tank after feeding. Make sure there are no dead fish or plants lying around too.

As a precaution, its a good idea to increase aeration in the tank, as the blooming bacteria can be a big drain on the dissolved oxygen. This won't actually help clear the bloom, but your fish will appreciate it if oxygen is low because of the bloom.

On top of this, do a quick gravel vac every day and if it doesn't clear in a few days, i'd say it's not a bacterial bloom and we need to re-diagnose.

The first alternative diagnosis which springs to mind is dust from your gravel / sand. Did you wash it properly before adding it to the tank? If it is dust, your external filter should clear it up quite quickly. You could check by opening the filter to see if the media is covered in dust.

That's my thoughts for tonight. Keep us updated.

BTT

BTT...yet again, thanks for the advice!

I have put my bubbles on in the tank which should help with the oxygen levels!

I soaked my gravel for 2 days, rinsing this often to get rid of any excess dusts/dye etc, so fingers crossed, we can rule that out! (is it possible to have too much gravel in the tank???)

Cheers mate.

 

[tin_tin26]

I think Tolak's suggestion of trying a bottle of Prime and using it at double dose for the next several water changes is one of the best ideas so far.

Tin, can you tell us again: You're doing what size water changes and how often? Did you have a lot of live plants before you took them out & are they still out?

Just since we're "grasping at straws" here: Can you describe, say, an ammonia test? Its the API Freshwater Master Test Kit, right?

So you fill your little glass test tube with 5ml of tank water, so that the meniscus is over the white line on the test tube, right? Then you invert test bottle #1 and hold it straight up and drip in 8 drops. Then you invert bottle#2 and drip in 8 drops of that. Then you cap the test tube, shake hard for a count of 5 or 6 and then start your stopwatch and let it go 5 minutes, right?
Then you read it with the test tube against the white area right next to the colors on the color card and several inches away from a bright light that's pointing away from you, or some kind of good illumination like that. And you're seeing a really pure translucent bright yellow for zero, right?

And remind me of the tank volume in Litres,gallons again? And its 8 fish, 8" of fish body?

And the white cloudiness has been how many days (?) out of how many days total water in tank days (?)

Thanks, ~~waterdrop~~

I recently done a thorugh gravel vac which resulted in a 50% water change. (usually i'll be doing 10% water changes every day until bloom clears, then i will just do weekly maintenance)

with regards to the water testing...i'm doing it exactly as you described... for amonia the colour is bright yellow, Nitrate is bright yellow, Nitrite is bright light blue, and PH is a blue colour. - using API master test kit.

My tank is 180L, with 8 fish..each fish no bigger than 1", apart from 2 sucker mouth catfish who are about 2" nose to tail.

My tank has been going for about 4 weeks and the cloudiness started about 10 days ago. - i only had false plants in, but i have now totally removed everything apart from the gravel. Doesnt seem to be making any difference though.

I have cut back feeding to every 3rd day with minimum amount of food. Also, there cannot be any dead fish as i only ever put eight in the tank, and they all still alive.

Hope that explains a bit better mate...and i appreciate your help so far! thanks!

Hopefully i'll get things sorted soon with everyones help/experience! (i aint got a clue!)

 

[tin_tin26]

How do i add a picture of my tank to this post? (not only do i know nothing about keeping fish....clearly know nothing about computers now...oaft! lol)

 

[Tolak]

I download pics to Imageshack; http/imageshack.us/

Copy & paste the line that says embeddable code, it starts with

 

[tin_tin26]

Cheers Tolak!!