Tank upgrade without cycling
- Thread starter El chapo
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I think you probably could but if you have a spare tank I think you should slowly add fish to the tank like every 3 days or something like that while also monerting the ammonia and nitrite .
Absolutely. The priority will be the filter (or just the media) so that you move the beneficial bacteria from the cycled tank into the new tank, the substrate also holds a lot of beneficial bacteria and of course the plants are really helpful.
Move the filter at the same time as the fish, keeping it wet/damp at all times. Check the water for ammonia and nitrite each day for a week or so to respond to any blips in the cycle. After a couple of weeks you can be confident the cycle is stable and increase the stock if appropriate,
If the tank pictured in post #1 is the present 5g, those plants will easily take up as much ammonia as the fish could ever produce. You have some fast growers and they are incredible at this.
I would rinse the substrate though, you do not necessarily want a lot of organic matter moving over. And under the tap is fine, but only in warm not hot water. I always do this is a bucket, swishing the substrate around until the worst of the gunk is out. However, this could be the time for a substrate change. For example, you will have more space in the new tank, and if cories might be a fish you would want they need sand.
I would rinse the substrate though, you do not necessarily want a lot of organic matter moving over. And under the tap is fine, but only in warm not hot water. I always do this is a bucket, swishing the substrate around until the worst of the gunk is out. However, this could be the time for a substrate change. For example, you will have more space in the new tank, and if cories might be a fish you would want they need sand.
Archerfish
Fish Crazy
Compare your transition on the 'floor space' of your new tank vs the volume of water.
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El chapo
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What do you mean I don't really understand what your sayin
Hello El. You won't need to recycle the new tank. Just transfer the filter from the old to the new tank. The greater volume of water will dilute any nitrogen produced by the fish. Such a small tank will require a couple of 50 percent water changes every week to maintain healthy water conditions for your fish.
10 Tanks
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
I do not agree with Byron re rinsing the old substrate. What is in it is plant food and I work hard to get and keep in there in my planted tanks. It may also contain bacteria we want. Google "mulm"
So how would I do what you are about to?
First Stage
1. Set up the new tank where it will go, be sure it is clean.
2. Bigger tank = more substrate. I add the new substrate first because I want the current substrate to be the surface layer. It holds the good bacteria which needs oxygen to function. I rinse new substrate and put it in wet.
3. I set up a few buckets/containers which I will fill with new dechlored water at a similar temp. to the 5 gal.
4. I remove the plants to a container, I move the hardscape/decor to one as well. Then I remove the fish to a container. The fish must be in their own container but the rest can all be together.
5. I unplug the filtration and heating.
5. I lower the water level in the 5 in order to get the substrate out. This can be done via a siphon or a clean spatula. I then spread the old substrate across the top of the new.
6. I immediately moisten the substrate now in the new tank. Enough water so it is covered.
7. I take a few minute break.... Before setting up the new tank.
Set-up
1. Because I do not want the hardscape/decor to dry out I add more dechlored water to the new tank. It should be enough to cover most of the hardscape/decor. I am guessing I fill to about 1/3 the depth for this step. If I am putting in a heater horizonatally near the bottom, I put it un place but do not plug it in yet.
2. I add the shorter foreground plants.
3. I fill the tank more to about 2/3 full.
4. I plant the mid-ground plants.
5. I fill the tank close to its final level.
6. I put the filtration in place, but do not run it yet.
7. I plant the tall background plants.
8. I turn on the filtration and heating.
9. If I am happy with how it all looks and works, I add the fish to their new home.
Other considerations before starting.
- The filtration does not have to be removed from the 5 until it is time to put it onto the new tank. If you are not going to use the filter on the 5 on the new tank, then the media in the existing filter must be preserved. By this I mean it must be kept wet.
- If getting a new filter or heater for the bigger tank, rinse these well before using them.
- If the old filter will not be used, then try to put its media into the new filter along with the additional media it should hold. Failing that , rinse out old media in the new tank water. If you do this, then before adding the fish, let the new filter clean the dirtiness you just rinsed into the water. That stuff holds bacteria that your want to end up in the new filter's media. Also, place the old media in the new tank for about a week or two and then remove it.
- If you will use the current filter plus a new one. It helps to put a bit of the old media into the new filter and then to replace what was removed from the old filter with new some new media. This suggestion assumes you will be adding more fish once the new tank is up and running OK.
- If doing all the moving etc. before adding the fish to the new tank takes a lot more time than expected, you will need to be sure the water the fish are parked in stays warm and oxygenated. I often scoop out some water and replace it with new warmer water. This also serves to oxygenate the fish water. If this were a bigger scale project I would be using a rubbermaid container with a heater and airstone in it. For everything but the fish.
- When you are ready to add new fish, you will have to do so gradually to insure you do not have cycling issues.
Live plants are great filters. The more of these one has in a tank, the fewer bacteria there will be. But there will still be some amount of them no matter how many plants one has. In a well planted tank most filters serve as mechnaical filtration and as oxygenators and circulation aids. But they will still have some bacteria in them.
Basically, if you follow the above your new tank should be safe for your existing fish. If it makes you feel better, you can test for ammonia a few times over the next week. However, as noted more water means ammonia will take more time to build up. The odds are very good that the esisting bacteri will multiply sooner than any ammonia or nitrite can build up so it shows in a test. But it never hurts to be sure.
So how would I do what you are about to?
First Stage
1. Set up the new tank where it will go, be sure it is clean.
2. Bigger tank = more substrate. I add the new substrate first because I want the current substrate to be the surface layer. It holds the good bacteria which needs oxygen to function. I rinse new substrate and put it in wet.
3. I set up a few buckets/containers which I will fill with new dechlored water at a similar temp. to the 5 gal.
4. I remove the plants to a container, I move the hardscape/decor to one as well. Then I remove the fish to a container. The fish must be in their own container but the rest can all be together.
5. I unplug the filtration and heating.
5. I lower the water level in the 5 in order to get the substrate out. This can be done via a siphon or a clean spatula. I then spread the old substrate across the top of the new.
6. I immediately moisten the substrate now in the new tank. Enough water so it is covered.
7. I take a few minute break.... Before setting up the new tank.
Set-up
1. Because I do not want the hardscape/decor to dry out I add more dechlored water to the new tank. It should be enough to cover most of the hardscape/decor. I am guessing I fill to about 1/3 the depth for this step. If I am putting in a heater horizonatally near the bottom, I put it un place but do not plug it in yet.
2. I add the shorter foreground plants.
3. I fill the tank more to about 2/3 full.
4. I plant the mid-ground plants.
5. I fill the tank close to its final level.
6. I put the filtration in place, but do not run it yet.
7. I plant the tall background plants.
8. I turn on the filtration and heating.
9. If I am happy with how it all looks and works, I add the fish to their new home.
Other considerations before starting.
- The filtration does not have to be removed from the 5 until it is time to put it onto the new tank. If you are not going to use the filter on the 5 on the new tank, then the media in the existing filter must be preserved. By this I mean it must be kept wet.
- If getting a new filter or heater for the bigger tank, rinse these well before using them.
- If the old filter will not be used, then try to put its media into the new filter along with the additional media it should hold. Failing that , rinse out old media in the new tank water. If you do this, then before adding the fish, let the new filter clean the dirtiness you just rinsed into the water. That stuff holds bacteria that your want to end up in the new filter's media. Also, place the old media in the new tank for about a week or two and then remove it.
- If you will use the current filter plus a new one. It helps to put a bit of the old media into the new filter and then to replace what was removed from the old filter with new some new media. This suggestion assumes you will be adding more fish once the new tank is up and running OK.
- If doing all the moving etc. before adding the fish to the new tank takes a lot more time than expected, you will need to be sure the water the fish are parked in stays warm and oxygenated. I often scoop out some water and replace it with new warmer water. This also serves to oxygenate the fish water. If this were a bigger scale project I would be using a rubbermaid container with a heater and airstone in it. For everything but the fish.
- When you are ready to add new fish, you will have to do so gradually to insure you do not have cycling issues.
Live plants are great filters. The more of these one has in a tank, the fewer bacteria there will be. But there will still be some amount of them no matter how many plants one has. In a well planted tank most filters serve as mechnaical filtration and as oxygenators and circulation aids. But they will still have some bacteria in them.
Basically, if you follow the above your new tank should be safe for your existing fish. If it makes you feel better, you can test for ammonia a few times over the next week. However, as noted more water means ammonia will take more time to build up. The odds are very good that the esisting bacteri will multiply sooner than any ammonia or nitrite can build up so it shows in a test. But it never hurts to be sure.
Hello Two. Wow! That's quite a list! All that's really needed is transferring the old filter to the new tank along with anything else from the old tank like rocks, decorations and anything else. The surfaces on all those things will house all the beneficial bacteria needed to cycle the new tank. Add the large, frequent water changes to deal with any rise in nitrogen and you're good.
10 Tanks
Last edited:
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
How and when you move things matters. I have only done thing about 20 times so far.
If there is a rise in nitrogen, you have done it wrong. How you do it does matter to the success of the move and to the health of the fish. Tnis is especially true for moving substrate and having to increase the amount. There is likely as much bacteria not in one's filter as there is in it. Cover up the old substrate with the new and you will kill off most of the good bacteria in it and yes you will then spike ammonia etc. when it should not happen.
Where are the fish during the move? How do you move the plants? And if you have never done this before, how do you have any idea of the better ways to do this or the things to consider in planning it?
Life is simple when things go as planned. But what happens if in the middle of the transfer real life intervenes and you have to stop for an hour or two in the middle of the move.
My experience is that the newer one is to the hobby, the more detailed the advice should be so the greater the odds of success will be. As always, El chapo can listen to whatever advice he wants. He is under no obligation to follow mine and I will not be upset if he dicides not to do so. But I would be remiss if I did not offer the best advice I can.
If there is a rise in nitrogen, you have done it wrong. How you do it does matter to the success of the move and to the health of the fish. Tnis is especially true for moving substrate and having to increase the amount. There is likely as much bacteria not in one's filter as there is in it. Cover up the old substrate with the new and you will kill off most of the good bacteria in it and yes you will then spike ammonia etc. when it should not happen.
Where are the fish during the move? How do you move the plants? And if you have never done this before, how do you have any idea of the better ways to do this or the things to consider in planning it?
Life is simple when things go as planned. But what happens if in the middle of the transfer real life intervenes and you have to stop for an hour or two in the middle of the move.
My experience is that the newer one is to the hobby, the more detailed the advice should be so the greater the odds of success will be. As always, El chapo can listen to whatever advice he wants. He is under no obligation to follow mine and I will not be upset if he dicides not to do so. But I would be remiss if I did not offer the best advice I can.
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El chapo
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Thanks for the advice but kinda solved the problem I was facing. I was in need of an upgrade for the five but had nowhere to place the new tank so I could cycle it. But I found a tank and stand for a good price with a lot more gallons than I was expecting so I grabbed it and have begun properly cycling it .thanks for the advice again I don't mean to be rude after asking for you guys advice and not using it
Nothing rude about it at all, good luck with the new tank & cycle.
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