Swapping To A Larger Tank - What Filtration

[gunman]

I'm after a bit of advice guys. I will point out first that I have made mistakes in my setup, I am aware of them, just need advice on how to cope .

Here's the biz: I currently have a 3ft 160l tank running with a fluval 4plus internal filter. I think (correction, I know) I have overstocked my tank and with fish that should be nowhere near a 3 ft tank . I have ordered a 4 ft tank working out at 212l (I still think this will be too small in time but is the largest we can fit on our existing unit and the wife doesnt want a unit that doesnt match the rest of the furniture in the living room which is mexican pine). The tank has been running for about 6 months but I didn't do a fishless cycle as I never knew of such a thing or this forum when I set up.

I lately have been having a few spikes of nitrite so I'm doing daily water changes to try and help. Now, on to my main question, the 4plus is rated to 215l but as there are a few 'big' fish I think it may be better 'overfiltering'? I have been looking at the fluval 305 external filter. Now, what I would like advice on is this, how would be best swapping over the tanks? I would like to get the nitrite levels stabilised before the swap if possible, would I be best running both filters on the 3ft tank for some time, then swap to the 4 ft using all the water and gravel from the 4ft? Should I run both filters on the 4ft for a while after as well? Due to space issues I cant run both tanks together I'm afraid.

 

[waterdrop]

There are many ways to do it. The most simple and important thing is to just be sure to keep all the filter *media* and all the fish together in the same places at the same time, all else pales in comparison. (Gravel is almost unimportant compared to filter media and tank water is completely unimportant.)

So perhaps the most simple way to do it is simply to move the Fluval 4Plus media into the new 305 trays (you may have to take scissors and cut up sponges or otherwise improvise but just bring over all the mess, without cleaning and without unnecessary disturbance and keep it all wet (just don't let it dry out) during the process (don't allow yourself to get distracted and have it dry out under any circumstances.) Fill the tank and filter with fresh tap water (or you can certainly siphon in some of your tank water if that makes things easier as far as moving water is concerned) that has been treated with a good condition (like Seachem Prime) at 1.5x to 2x whatever dose the bottle instructs and that has been roughly temperature matched using your hand. Then acclimate and introduce the fish at the same time. You must then test about twice a day with a good liquid-reagent based test kit (like the API Freshwater Master Test Kit,) watching for any traces of ammonia or nitrite(NO2) which would necessitate a significant water change (sometimes bacterial colonies can shut down for a day or two when they're moved but then they make a comeback.) If there is a choice of where to take and and replace some of the new media with the mature media coming in from the old filter, choose to put the mature media first in the water path, as compared to the new biological media that you want it to spread to.

Another optional thing you can do is to indeed run the new filter side by side with the old filter on the old tank for some period while you are figuring this all out or while you are waiting for the right day to do all the changing (start early on that day and allow a lot of time and have help.) This may help to get a few stray bacteria into the new filter, which can never hurt, but don't be fooled that you can really cycle a filter this way, it takes months to actually do that properly, so in your case its just a slight thing on the front end of the real thing, which is moving the media (I'm also assuming you don't *want* the old filter in the new tank, right?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[gunman]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I just went and picked up the 305 this evening, it's new but the guy broke the impellor spindle fitting it all together (new one ordered) . I took the foam pads out and they look about the same size as the internal ones so I could swap out the 2 from the existing filter, also, in an atempt to get the new media 'going' I have suspended the foam pads and the ceramic type tubes in stockings in front of the internal filter (and over an airstone) I dont know if this will do much to help but it doesnt cost anything and has to be worth doing?

Ideally, no, I dont want the internal filter in the new tank, I may be setting the old tank up as a malawi tank at some point, from that respect, it may be an idea to keep it in use so I can set up the 3ft again with a'mature filer media (of course, I could use some media from the external to kick it off).

 

[tekopikin]

Hello gunman,
I made the same mistakes just as you when I started out, overstocking, one week cycle, incompatible fish, dead fish the lot! What a nightmare it was . I am now looking to upgrade to a 3 or 4 feet tank just like you and this is why I have gone for a 205 Fluval system on my 65 litre tank. Just a quick tip on the Fluval 305 filter system - while you are waiting on the impeller to be replaced (I'm assuming that you're still awaiting the replacement part and haven't set up already) it might be a good idea to take the coiled hosing out of it's packaging and extend it to remove the kinks.

I am suggesting this to you as I found the hosing for my 205 unit quite difficult to work with straight out of the box, unlike what you see in the DVD set up video they aren't quite as flexible as they may appear

If you have installed it already, I'd be interested to know what you think of the hosing - was rigid or flexible enough for you to work with?

Good luck...

 

[gunman]

Thankfully my nitrites are back down to 0. I have only lost one fish to date and that was a very small clown loach. It lterally disappeared, not trace of bones or anything. I had 2 the same size, one disappered, the other I still have.

I have 4 tinfoil barbs here between 4 - 5" so they wil be getting a new home (possibly back to LFS). I also ended up with 2 yellow labs in a community tank so the idea is to perhaps set the 3ft tank up again as a malawi tank (although a corner unit would be better suited to the living room)

I have added an airstone to the 3ft tank and suspended the foam and other media from the 305 in stockings above the airstone and just in front of the output of the 4plus. I dont know whether this will speed up bacteria growth or not. Do you use the carbon in the 205? The rest of it is still in the box.

 

[tekopikin]

Yeah same thing happened to my Japonica shrimp, started out with 5, lost one and the other just vanished . I used all the media that came in the box only to be told in a different thread that I should have left out the carbon, typical huh? For now I'm just going to leave the 205 running side by side with my internal for the next four weeks or so till it's properly seeded.
Gosh this is harder than raising children! Some people just make it seem so simple, I can't imagine having a full time job and being tasked with carrying out water tests twice a day!

 

[drobbyb]

Yeah, re-homing those tinfoil barbs is probably a good thing. They get too large and need to be kept in too large of a shoal to fit in a 4 foot tank.

I would save the carbon for removing meds. It's only active in the water for about 3 days, after that it can leach some of the chemicals it has absorbed back into the water (eek!) and it makes poor biological filtration material. It's best to only use it for a purpose like removing meds or unwanted tannins from your water. I would replace it with more biological media. There really isn't such a thing as too much filtration or filtration material!

It sounds as if you are on the right track now, and don't worry about making mistakes initially. I don't know of any fish keeper that has never made any mistakes along the way. It's a learning experience and we are human.

 

[waterdrop]

Fluval doesn't get a lot of love for their hoses from what I've read. One trick that can be used on all types of hoses though is to submerge them in very hot water (well, don't melt them of course) so that they soften up before you have to work with them. WD